I am using a Hankook CT on the back of my ST-1300 and would like to run a 130/70-18 Battleax BT45 on the front. I am running the BT45s on the front of both my 1800 and 1500 Gold Wings and the tires handle fine and are wearing very well.
Anyone Running Double Darkside on their ST-1300?
- Thread starter Yaesu
- Start date
Northern Dancer
Northern-Dancer
++++++++++++++++++++++
The BT45 according to 1800 Darksiders wears fast on the sides if doing a lot of cornering as I believe it is a dual compound Tread meaning the center is harder rubber with the Sides Soft Rubber. Also we ST1300 Riders are able to take corners sharper then the Goldwing. Also it is reported this tire tends to cup and get noisy.
The Bridgestone G709 130/70-18 is a better Tire for cornering and never cups. Also up here in Canada the Highway Traffic Act clearly states any Vehicle running both Bias Ply and Radial Ply Tires at same time is subject to a $1,600 Dollar fine and immediately towed.
Ron
Dinkie Diesel
------------Jeff------------
Thanks for starting this thread. I've given it some thought too. A fellow member (ag5i) is also using the BT-45 on the front of his GL1800. Last time I saw him, in November, he had 13,000 miles on it and it looked brand new. No cupping or uneven wear. I'm sure the 709 is a good tire too but the lack of tread/sipes gives me pause.
Does this include US registered bikes visiting Canada?
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I'm running the G709 front with a London Taxi Tar dark side on the rear.
The law against bias/radial is bogus. Letting legislatures decide what's safe-unsafe is just a bad deal all 'round. I recall legislative event in NY state several years ago. They wanted to ban "2-piece" Aluminum car wheels 'til one knowledgeable guy carried in his spare tar and pointed out ALL car wheels are pretty much 2-piece whether steel, aluminum, etc.
(BTW, that's on a ST1100 ABS II)
That is insane! There is NO valid reason you can't mix radial and bias ply tires on a motorcycle!
You got a link to that regulation??
Northern Dancer
Northern-Dancer
====================
A friend of mine (Mark) who is qualified to safety check Motorcycles jumped all over me when I told him about going Double Dark. He told me about this Regulation twice now as He rides a Goldwing 1500 that comes with BIAS Tires and therefore he refuses to go Darkside with his Rear Tire because of this ruling even though he wants to.
He is looking at changing his Front tire to Radial so he can hopefully soon.
I did my own research on the Ontario Traffic Act and Federal or Transport Canada Regulations and cannot find this regulation yet. I have E-Mailed "Mark" to have him clarify this information, I know of a Canadian Goldwing 1800 Rider living in Ottawa Area who is Double Dark that I will share this INFO with if in fact "Mark" can prove it to me.
Northern Dancer,
Ron
That may be the law, but I seriously doubt many LEO's would think to check a motorcyclist's tires during a traffic stop.
I was digging through all of the Canada Safety Acts I could find - there's absolutely no mention of mixing them being illegal. Could be that there's something for trucks - saw one mention of it being illegal to mix them on one axle, but nothing official there either..
And I'd agree, no LEO is going to know enough to check that anyhow, unless they're from the commercial inspection division.
And I'd agree, no LEO is going to know enough to check that anyhow, unless they're from the commercial inspection division.
Hmm, well, I did find this in the Ontario Driver's Handbook. http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/dandv/driver/handbook/section5.1.4.shtml
"Use similar tires on all four wheels. Some combinations are illegal, including: radial-ply tires on the front and bias-ply or belted bias-ply on the rear; a mix of 50 or 60 series tires on the front with any other mixture on the rear; and a combination of types or sizes on the same axle, unless the types and sizes are equivalent by industry standards. This does not apply to a single spare tire used in an emergency."
Note it says all 4 wheels, not two.. :lol:
But this document http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/html/regs/english/elaws_regs_900625_e.htm in section 4.a says "no radials on the front and bias on the back" but does not say the inverse. Also doesn't call out motorcycles at all other than trikes..
Love it when things are so nice and clear and easy to find and understand.. :doh:
And then this from the Goodyear Ca website http://www.goodyear.ca/faqs/technical/ If the tire company has posted this, then it'll be the law - they are really scared of lawsuits/legislation. So I'd say you'd be safe with Radial rear and bias front for a bike.
"When radial tires are used with bias or bias belted tires on the same car, the radials must always be placed on the rear axle. Never mix radial and bias-ply tires on the same axle. When you select a pair of replacement tires in the same size and construction as those on the car, we recommend you put them on the rear axle. A single new tire should be paired on the rear axle with the tire having the most tread depth of the other three. "
"Use similar tires on all four wheels. Some combinations are illegal, including: radial-ply tires on the front and bias-ply or belted bias-ply on the rear; a mix of 50 or 60 series tires on the front with any other mixture on the rear; and a combination of types or sizes on the same axle, unless the types and sizes are equivalent by industry standards. This does not apply to a single spare tire used in an emergency."
Note it says all 4 wheels, not two.. :lol:
But this document http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/html/regs/english/elaws_regs_900625_e.htm in section 4.a says "no radials on the front and bias on the back" but does not say the inverse. Also doesn't call out motorcycles at all other than trikes..
Love it when things are so nice and clear and easy to find and understand.. :doh:
And then this from the Goodyear Ca website http://www.goodyear.ca/faqs/technical/ If the tire company has posted this, then it'll be the law - they are really scared of lawsuits/legislation. So I'd say you'd be safe with Radial rear and bias front for a bike.
"When radial tires are used with bias or bias belted tires on the same car, the radials must always be placed on the rear axle. Never mix radial and bias-ply tires on the same axle. When you select a pair of replacement tires in the same size and construction as those on the car, we recommend you put them on the rear axle. A single new tire should be paired on the rear axle with the tire having the most tread depth of the other three. "
Northern Dancer
Northern-Dancer
Hi bkra13,
Many thanks for digging up this additional INFO with your research -- I have sent an E-Mail to "Mark" telling him to not be upset as I have been wrong once myself a long time ago!! (SIC)
Also that it is OK now for him to run a BIAS Ply Tire on his Motorcycle Front wheel and a Radial Car Tire on his Rear Wheel unless he can up proof otherwise. The way he has laid into me over this supposed Law that he seemed to know so much about in the past and especially when he really jumped on me when I come back with the law I heard about was not on the same axle.
Knowing "Mark" he will do his best to try and prove he is right to save face -- sure hope he is wrong this time!
Northern-Dancer,
Ron
Many thanks for digging up this additional INFO with your research -- I have sent an E-Mail to "Mark" telling him to not be upset as I have been wrong once myself a long time ago!! (SIC)
Also that it is OK now for him to run a BIAS Ply Tire on his Motorcycle Front wheel and a Radial Car Tire on his Rear Wheel unless he can up proof otherwise. The way he has laid into me over this supposed Law that he seemed to know so much about in the past and especially when he really jumped on me when I come back with the law I heard about was not on the same axle.
Knowing "Mark" he will do his best to try and prove he is right to save face -- sure hope he is wrong this time!
Northern-Dancer,
Ron
- Joined
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TempeST in a tea pot. I prefer coffee anyway. 
:coffee1:
:coffee1:
Dinkie Diesel
------------Jeff------------
Double Dark comin' right up! Ordered a BT-45 from Ernie. That will make for a bias ply, rear application tire on the front and a radial car tire on the back. Be on the look out for a mushroom cloud coming from the greater St. Louis skyline after I get it mounted and I crash & burn.
So Jeff,,,you are staying with your original CT? It sounded almost like you were not real happy with it before, or was that other reviewers that tried your bike that I recall?
Dinkie Diesel
------------Jeff------------
I'm committed now. The simplest way to explain my impression of the Michelin car tire is that it is the bomb on the slab and ain't worth a hoot in the twisties. Coming home from visiting Spotz the other day I really was hating the CT. I was 20 miles from home where the good roads are, it was getting dark and even though the roads are familiar to me I was fighting each and every turn. No smooth lines. No relaxing. Just pure hell. Maybe this new front tire will make a big difference, I hope so anyway. Mellow hated it too for the 4 miles he rode it. You can try it at Moonshine 2012.
Any idea why the recommendation for the new tires on the rear? Discount Tires follows that mantra and I had to fight them to install a new set on the front on my front wheel drive.
Ooh, I"ll give you a real-life example (I always wondered about that myself). I found out the interesting way (which is a few degrees better than "the hard way") that when you have good tires in front and bad tires in back and you hit slickery stuff in a corner and let off the gas that the front end with traction slows down and the back end without traction slides out and passes the front end. whoooO!!! Once you figure that out, it's actually fun, but that first time or 2 it's a puckerer, with inexperienced drivers it would be not so good. If the front tires are worn and the rears are good, then you already tend to enter the corner slower and the back end stays in line with the front. The front may "push" or slide a bit, but the back will not do anything unpredictable. Worn front tires basically just exacerbate the inherent "pushiness" or understeer of front wheel drive, easier to handle than unpredictable snap-oversteer, which is what I experienced.
This is all applicable to front wheel drive experience only. I now follow that "good tires on back, worn on front" at least in winter time. Summer time, not so much. Hydroplaning in a corner really doesn't happen that often - usually on a straight heavily grooved highway, in which case the rears aren't going to to anything stupid anyhow.
Oh, and I did once have a car ('78 Honda Civic) that had mixed radial/bias ply tires. can't remember now which were front or back, but do remember the squirreliest handling I've ever experienced in any car. Added 2 more radials and the car was transformed. Also the last time I ever mixed tire construction types on any car.
bk
Thx. Will be on snow in a few days, so will see what happen there (hopefully the "interesting way"!).
Dinkie Diesel
------------Jeff------------
The little brown truck was here today. He dropped off the goods. Still have to mount it. Looks good! I figure I already screwed up severely with my choice of rear tire, I may as well go ahead and screw with the front end too. I think I can forecast where I'm headed. I'll have tires on the front and rear that will last 30,000 miles but feel horrible the entire time. LOL Eh, I'm kidding with y'all. My goal with this experimentation is to find something that lasts on the slab. Handling is secondary to longevity this time.
