Anyone de-linked the brakes?

OP
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Thank you for the kind words :eek::
Let me know when the TOOL arrives!

Will do.... nice talking to you on the phone tonight, and we're happy for your wife! Hey...what does one lubricate the caliper brake pad pins with? Something rare or exotic? Or just good waterproof grease?
 
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I use a product called Sil Glyde Brake lubricant. Available at most auto stores. You can also use Copper base antiseaze or something similar.
You just want a very small amount to keep the pin from binding on the pads, but not enought to collect brake dust and dirt.
 

RONST1300

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For the record Larry, you have me on that, no I never did anything with the rear smc... If I ignore it, maybe it will go away. LOL ..till I'm ready for a trip.
Ron
 

dduelin

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For the record, the Honda ST1300 does not recommend any grease on the retaining pins however many owners grease them.
 
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Hey all. 5+ years later. Story is, I had my rear tire and brakes done at a professional bike shop. After they did the work I noticed the rear wheel dragging. Thought it was just the new pads being broken in. After 120 miles it was till dragging. Took it back to the same shop, they said its just a common issue my bike is known for. Then told me for $110 to $700 they could figure out the problem. Maybe caliper, pistons, proportioning valve, or even M/C they said. So I say hell no and bring it home to figure out that the outer calipers wont release unless I open the bleeder valve. Once the bleeder valve is opened it releases immediately. So this rules out any piston issues. Any ways I have purchased a brake hose that will replace the line that comes out of the rear M/C that runs to the proportioning valve. Its the same hose that connects the rear M/C directly to the Rear Center piston of caliper. Long story short "Too late" They did not open the bleeder or even remove the reservoir cap when compressing the pistons. I believe this may have caused an issue with the Proportioning valve. Anyway I have ordered the same rear brake hose as the one that goes from the M/C directly to the rear caliper center piston. Item # 43310-MCS-611 See the diagram linked below to see what I'm referring too. This will eliminate the front brakes engaging when only applying the read pedal. So foot pedal works rear brakes only and handle lever works front brakes only. Once I get the this job completed I will get back to you with the results. I will say I had a Nighthawk 750 for 20 years and put 110K on her with separate braking systems not inked. Now that I know about the linked braking system it explains why I feel uncomfortable making turns using my rear brakes an the ST1300. Its been engaging both front and rear which puts more drag on front wheel which isn't good to use front brakes during slow sharp turns.

Link to the part purchased #
Bought Part # to replace part #
www.bikebandit.com/oem-parts/2010-honda-st1300-st1300/o/m19227#sch657520
 

ST Gui

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Took it back to the same shop, they said its just a common issue my bike is known for. Then told me for $110 to $700 they could figure out the problem.
The guys at that shop aren't motorcycle mechanics— they're replacement artists. 'Maybe it's this...' cha-ching 'No maybe it's that...' cha-ching

Makes me think of an old AAMCO transmission repair commercial. Or two.

I no nothing of de-linking the brakes but what I've read of this thread it doesn't seem as easy as you make it seem. It'll be interesting to see your progress and results. Good luck.
 
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Going to revive this thread as a new ST owner. Are there warning signs of a lock up?
 

jfheath

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Going to revive this thread as a new ST owner. Are there warning signs of a lock up?
Yes. You can almost guarantee that the rear brake will lock up if the braking system has not been serviced properly. I do mine every year. 2 years is the absolute maximum between services.

Can you tell just before it does it ? No. It is surprising that a small amount if brake drag is difficult to notice with the power of the engine. You can tell if you pull the clutch in and the bike slows down faster than expected. Getting your brakes hot and then seeing how long they take to cool down will give you a clue if something is wrong. If any of your brake discs are too hot to keep your hand on after braking hard a few times and then riding for a few minutes without using the brakes, then something is wrong.

You can also check the operation of the SMC in the garage by moving it by hand and verifying that the rear wheel locks up when applied, and that the wheel releases instantly when you let go. SMC movement is little more than 1mm.

But really, rather than considering de-linking the brakes - which is the topic of this thread, so I assume that you are considering it - I would put the time and effort into making sure that what you have is working properly. Then look after it with a proper service schedule. These things dont suddenly lock up. That is caused by assuming that they don't need attention.
 
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And I think I might have been about as close to that last sentence as you could get; tried the recommended SMC procedure last weekend and I've got some drag, won't make a clean full rotation.
I'll be printing out the procedures and diagrams for guidance but I was wondering if it would really be any more difficult to drain the whole thing and remove completely the SMC and the three Brake Calipers and exercise the pistons a bit, maybe not need to replace any parts.
 

jfheath

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Drag can be caused by a lot of things.

It is possible to clean up the SMC - but if there is any corrosion in the bore, then you probably need to buy a new one.

Lots of useful info about the braking system in here.


And some photos of an SMC that a friend gave me after he'd been having trouble. The SMC had a service kit 2 years earlier, and it haad given him problems for the last year. I sawed through it lengthways to get some photos of inside the bore too.


Me suggesting reasons why the SMC often fails. I know people remove the boot and grease inside. I experimented with putting the boot back on afterwards and discovered that it was difficult to put it back properly.


Some explanations of how to bleed the brake system. It is probably more useful as a device to understand what fluids push what bits - cos it has nice pretty diagrams.



I just put this in to demonstrate that it is possible to have tight bearings if someone didn't install them properly.


And one from Larry with some dirty pictures. You need to see these to understand what all of the concern is about with a badly maintained braking system



John
 
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I disagree with feeling brake drag. If you allow the bike to coast to a stop on a level surface - clutch pulled or bike in neutral - without touching the brakes, there will be no little jerk when it stops if the brakes release completely. If they are dragging, the suspension usually rebounds a tiny bit at the stop point.

As far as delinking the brakes, by the time you are finished, you will have spent more than just replacing the SMC. Its been said before by a number of guys here that if you service the brakes regularly (bleed, clean calipers, etc.) your SMC will last a long, long time. Delinking does not mean you don't have to bleed the system regularly.
 

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Going to revive this thread as a new ST owner. Are there warning signs of a lock up?
The below is no particular order of priority, and many will not be of any use unless you habitually paid attention to your ST1300 before the rear brake began to drag so that you would notice these changes. As a new ST1300 owner, you may not have had enough time with it to be able to notice any changes in many of the below.

Decreased fuel mileage for no apparent reason.
Premature wear on rear brake pads.
Rear brake rotor that runs hotter than normal.
Bike seems more difficult than usual to push around manually.
Rear wheel does not rotate freely and do a couple of rotations when given a good shove.
Increased rear brake rubbing sound from the rear wheel when the the brakes are not being applied- caused by increased friction between the pads and rotor.
On the slight grades, with no brakes applied, where you used to slowly roll forward or backwards, the motorcycle no longer rolls at all.
Without the brakes applied, the motorcycle does not come to a slow gently rolling stop as the inertia slowly dissipates, but noticibly comes to a stop just before that moment as though the brakes had been tapped.
 
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Not sure if that was for my benefit John I should have been more specific that in reference to diagrams - I meant substantially ones I've already got from you and others on the site, [I don't even have a service manual yet] in any event thanks again, hopefully others venturing into the linked brake system will pick up on these links as well.
 
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Decreased fuel mileage for no apparent reason.
Premature wear on rear brake pads.
Rear brake rotor that runs hotter than normal.
Bike seems more difficult than usual to push around manually.
Rear wheel does not rotate freely and do a couple of rotations when given a good shove.
Increased rear brake rubbing sound from the rear wheel when the the brakes are not being applied- caused by increased friction between the pads and rotor.
On the slight grades, with no brakes applied, where you used to slowly roll forward or backwards, the motorcycle no longer rolls at all.
Without the brakes applied, the motorcycle does not come to a slow gently rolling stop as the inertia slowly dissipates, but noticibly comes to a stop just before that moment as though the brakes had been tapped.
So basically, if the rear wheel is spinning freely on the center stand (before every ride) I can ride without fear of crashing?

Or does it grab intermittently?
 

jfheath

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The test is whether or not the brakes release by themselves AFTER they have been applied by the SMC. The problem is that if the pressure cannot escape through the tiny compensation port efficiently then they cannot release when extra pressure builds up due to heat expansion in the fluid.

So no. Just spinning the back wheel is a start, but it doesn't prove anything of any significance.
 

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So basically, if the rear wheel is spinning freely on the center stand (before every ride) I can ride without fear of crashing?
I prefer to, and recommend, that if this test is going to be done that it be done at some point during a ride and preferably just after a period of hard braking when the brakes (and the SMC) have been well exercised.

It must be understood that this, and any of the other things that I mentioned, is but one quick test that can be an indicator of an impending problem, but it is only an indicator and certainly not a definitive test of the condition of the SMC. The best thing that can be done to mitigate an SMC failure, or any brake system failure for that matter, is proper and regular maintenance of the brake system.
 

dduelin

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So basically, if the rear wheel is spinning freely on the center stand (before every ride) I can ride without fear of crashing?
I would say yes because it worked for me the entire time I owned my STs and my current Goldwing which are linked in a similar way. If the brakes are working correctly to begin with problems generally don't just pop up and cause catastrophic failure.

If you do this [ give the rear tire a shove with your foot and note how freely it rotates ] habitually as part of a pre and post ride routine you will see brake problems coming before they are a problem. It takes very little time and effort and you will know when something is beginning to cause extra friction in the calipers. There are no mysteries lurking here that only the gifted can divine. If maintenance is kept up these bikes go 200,000 or 300,000 miles or more and often on the original equipment. If maintenance was not kept up, then do it and square it away.
 
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I would say yes because it worked for me the entire time I owned my STs and my current Goldwing which are linked in a similar way. If the brakes are working correctly to begin with problems generally don't just pop up and cause catastrophic failure.

If you do this [ give the rear tire a shove with your foot and note how freely it rotates ] habitually as part of a pre and post ride routine you will see brake problems coming before they are a problem. It takes very little time and effort and you will know when something is beginning to cause extra friction in the calipers. There are no mysteries lurking here that only the gifted can divine. If maintenance is kept up these bikes go 200,000 or 300,000 miles or more and often on the original equipment. If maintenance was not kept up, then do it and square it away.
That’s where buying a used bike can be a problem. Apparently mine locked up before. smc was rebuilt. Don’t think it’s been a problem since but what can I do about it now? Makes me want to delink
 
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