Rear Flange Bearings Toast

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Just noticed on my rear tire replacement at 65K that the axel showed signs of heat stress on right side of the axel. On further investigation the flange bearings felt notchy. On even further investigation my local shop informed me that when they removed the drive collar one set of bearings just fell out of the rear wheel while the other flange bearing was missing approximately five ball bearings.

Further, the drive collar was also scored and had to be replaced. Therefore, I had the shop replaced all bearings in the rear wheel as well as the front even though all other bearings checked out just fine. I figured at 65K it was time to go ahead and replace all the wheel bearings so I'd fell comfortable for the next 30k or so.

I'll post some pictures in the near future but sure wish I had just replaced these bearings around 50K and I always check when I replace the tires which I did at 54K.

Now maybe my mileage will back up to 40's from 39mpg.
 

BakerBoy

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Glad you got it addressed...:)
Likely, the other bearing replacements were likely not necessary as only the driven flange bearings are a problem on the ST13's.
 
OP
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Yeah the shop said the other bearings where still in good shape. However, I just had them all replaced for my own piece of mind even though I spent about $150.00 for the CBR bearing kit. I'm now confident I'll be good to go with these new bearings installed at least for another 30K.
 
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I installed a set this weekend in another members bike. They looked and felt ok, but that didn't mean they'd feel that way under load.
Once removed, they were found to be scored pretty good, and a couple of the balls were flat on one side.
Keeping an eye on the wear on the axle is a good indicator of things going bad.
Thanks for sharing.
 

Mellow

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Keeping an eye on the wear on the axle is a good indicator of things going bad.
I disagree Larry, axle marks and scoring are not always an indication of any issue. I've changed a lot of rear ST1300 and ST1100 tires and almost all of them had dark marks on the axles. My '08 does and I've checked and even replaced my flange bearings but they were all always fine. My '03 had bearing issues so I've been paranoid w/08. Most of the axle marks are just corrosion from moisture getting into that area. I'm not saying loose or bad bearings won't show those marks, just saying that the marks don't mean you have bad bearings, they are completely normal.

 
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The wear marks in your photo are normal. The axle does look a little dry however :rofl1:
All axles will show contact mating wear signs, what I was referring to is when you see severe scoring or gaulding marks.
I should have been clearer in my discription.
 

Mellow

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Next time you run into some please post some pictures.

My experience is basically that you pull the flange and feel them and if they are notchy then replace them. I've replaced bearings that basically fell out of the flange before and there was no scoring or marks different than the post I had above except maybe a little darker - my axle now is actually a lot darker than in the pic. My argument is basically that the axle is not an indication of anything that is going to happen. If the bearings are bad enough they are marking up the axle then they should have been checked prior to the point where they were bad enough to cause any of those marks.

Maybe if you take some pics the next time I'll understand what you're saying but for me, you check the bearings at every tire change and that all that is necessary. You could replace the flange bearings every other tire change if you like but it's not really necessary unless they feel notchy.
 
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I thought I'd add my $.02. I feel these bearing are not that popular in industry and sit in bearing houses for years. They are a very thin walled bearing and I don't think there is a lot of applications for them. The grease inside deteriates over time. We buy the new 4905 2RS and think they are fresh off the assembly line. I'm sure many bearings are quite old. Kind of no expiry date on the package. The point I am trying to make to make them last longer, is to flush all the grease out of the new bearing and then pack it with fresh synthetic grease. 30% of the bearing cavity is the norm for grease quantity. You will be surprised when you really see how much grease there is in a pre-packed bearing. I am going to top up my new bearings with 50% and then repack them at my next rear tire change. The reason I say to flush the old grease out is some greases do not mix well with each other and can break down. You can carefully remove the bearing seals, clean, re-pack and carefully put the seals back on. I believe some of the bearing houses are buying the cheapest grease to keep production costs down. When I get my new bearings that I ordered last week, I'm going to do the above procedure. I'll start a separate post so I can update you with my findings over time. This is a deficiency on this bike, as a normal bearing L10 life should last many years, not just a few years. I'm working on a permanent fix to make these bearings last a lot longer, or the same as the rear tire bearings and will post shortly on my experiment that I'm thinking of trying.
 
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Thanks for sharing the info with us. I agree 100%. I've been cleaning and packing "new" bearings for as long as I can remember.
Good advice.
 
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Next time you run into some please post some pictures.

My experience is basically that you pull the flange and feel them and if they are notchy then replace them. I've replaced bearings that basically fell out of the flange before and there was no scoring or marks different than the post I had above except maybe a little darker - my axle now is actually a lot darker than in the pic. My argument is basically that the axle is not an indication of anything that is going to happen. If the bearings are bad enough they are marking up the axle then they should have been checked prior to the point where they were bad enough to cause any of those marks.

Maybe if you take some pics the next time I'll understand what you're saying but for me, you check the bearings at every tire change and that all that is necessary. You could replace the flange bearings every other tire change if you like but it's not really necessary unless they feel notchy.
I t-o-t-a-l-l-y (california accent) agree with what your saying. I think you just read too much into my response. I just look for wear on almost any moving parts for signs of problems, be it the pad hanging pin dry and badly scored, to mating surfaces on gun parts. I guess I should have simply said D-u-d-e, look for signs of wear :rofl1:
 

Mellow

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Well shoot I was born in CA, I should have recognized the accent lol.
 
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Al, I don't know what you're planning as a permanent fix, but I whole-heartedly agree with repacking new bearings to about 50%. I have also used titanium dioxide grease on my lawn tractor mower deck bearings since they take a lot of load, and I feel it has done wonders... however I'm all out now and hard to find titanium dioxide at a reasonable price for an individual. Next best substitute is molybdenum grease, but I'd think you'd want more than the standard 3% stuff. I see you can buy moly powder on ebay for reasonable, so I'm considering getting some to mix up a batch of special grease about 25%. Alternately, one could try Honda Moly Paste as it is about 45%.... thoughts on mixing it with a good No. 2 grease?
 
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Shoot me down in flames if I'm wrong, but i thought the moly stuff was for pressure situations where movement is limited. Put it in a sitaution where it has lots of movement, like a wheel bearing and it might not have the thermal properties that allows it to stay where you put it.
:plus1:
 

dduelin

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I am no grease expert but I think that molybdenum grease is not the optimal choice for ball or needle bearings. Moly is good for sliding surfaces under high pressure like splines. The Honda service manual gives recommendations for greases and suggests a moly paste for the splines and lithium base grease for other applications. Unless I missed this it gives no grease recommendation for the wheel and driven flange bearings themselves though, only the seals.

It is interesting to me that the wheel bearings pressed into the wheel last much longer than the driven flange bearings. I guess the cush drive allows the driven flange to move slightly out of alignment which stresses the bearings more than a normal wheel bearing. The service manager at the dealer I frequent says the design in the VTX chews up flange bearings much faster than the ST does. That's not good.
 
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I'm no grease expert either... moly has been used in CV joints forever, however that tends to be a #1 grease that is too thin. We'd need #2. Moly tends to fill voids and valleys in metal and bonds to the surface. Sometimes applied by burnishing, which from my readings has been done to automotive pistons and crank bearing surfaces. The idea is, it stays with the base metal for a long time and provides lubricity, also used as an assembly lubricant (why you see black/grey in a new final drive). You're correct it is great for sliding surfaces, but I would say bearings as well. Ford specs out moly grease for wheel bearings, driveshaft bearings, etc., which I believe is a #2 lithium base, ~5% moly. I can't see why it wouldn't improve things.... Moly can take high temperatures, titanium dioxide even higher.
 
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Sounds like the word Moly is gonna confuse folks.
Don't confuse Moly Grease(s) with Moly Paste etc.
I would refer you to the service manual for the correct application(s)
.02
 
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Sounds like the word Moly is gonna confuse folks.
Don't confuse Moly Grease(s) with Moly Paste etc.
I would refer you to the service manual for the correct application(s)
.02
Hopefully nobody is confused... this is a bearing discussion. Drive splines need Moly 60 paste, which we can probably agree isn't suitable for repacking wheel bearings.
 
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