Replacement for the Honda ST1300 in 20??

Blrfl

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Re: Replacement for the Honda ST1300 in 2014? A short article with responses.

No idea what ma Honda is up, to but I don't see the ST market high up on their priority list.
I might have said this before in this thread, but Honda has a burgeoning market for small-displacement bikes in Asia, and that's where their energies are being focused. It's all in their annual report.

--Mark
 

BakerBoy

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Re: Replacement for the Honda ST1300 in 2014?

Same thoughts here George and Carl.

While we like Hondas, but the evidence is overwhelming ... Honda is focusing elsewhere. So for those waiting for a new ST, find another bike to like. Fortunately, there are quite a few other bikes available if you're in the market. :)
 
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Re: Replacement for the Honda ST1300 in 2014? A short article with responses.

Is there any info if the crosstourer might be coming in the US market?
 
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Re: Replacement for the Honda ST1300 in 2014?

Why do people always ask for a sixth gear? Given the space in the cavity, each gear would have to be weaker (narrower) to allow for 6. Taller gearing? Okay, not the same thing. With enuff torque (which these bikes have) 4 speeds would probably be enuff. I often short shift 1 > 3 > 5 as it is.
O.K., either a sixth gear OR taller gearing. I want it for the MPG increase. If I were casually wandering through the back country on 2-lane roads, 5th works fine. Hit 80 on the highway and watch the MPG drop like a brick- and not just from the aerodynamics, but due to the engine speed past the revs. While not totally scientific, I can watch the MPG readout at various speeds, and see it stay relatively stable in 5th up to around 68-70mph. Past that it drops fast. The same thing happened with my KLR, but an increase in countershaft sprocket size raised the "sweet spot" for fuel mileage. Its clear these bikes were intended for 50-65mph speeds, anything much past that and they drink like a thirsty sailor on shore leave.
 

BakerBoy

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Re: Replacement for the Honda ST1300 in 2014?

The Honda engineers know what they're doing when setting the gear ratio ... they're trying to optimize economy given and assumed speed. The graph below illustrates a typical power vs rpm vs fuel usage rate, and hence how auto engineers design the optimum gear ratio and working range.
:)
ms120-fuel vs power.jpg

Jim, to your point, it may be that the Honda engineers assumed too low of an average/typical speed, but it is also possible that they got it right and a taller gear ratio actually worsens gas mileage. We'll never know because Honda doesn't publish a graph like this.
 
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Re: Replacement for the Honda ST1300 in 2014?

Mileage drops and tires wear quicker anything above 65mph.......on any bike, six-speed or otherwise,BTDT. So as BkerBoy stated correctly, the engineers got it ptretty well figured out. Even at a constant 50+mpg my ole' 92ST gets.....consistantly by the way, sure didn't buy it for the mileage, just the grin factor and the "about the ride".
 
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Re: Replacement for the Honda ST1300 in 2014?

BTW BakerBoy, many on the XS11 site have swapped out for the taller geared XS750-850 tripple final drive and actual mileage has suffered with the approx. 400rpm drop at slab speeds........definitely hit on a point there.
 

T_C

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Re: Replacement for the Honda ST1300 in 2014?

Quite often I found myself cruising in 4th...
Just evidence of a smooth powerful engine with a wide power band. If it wasn't so nice you'd know when you were out of the right gear.
 

Bones

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Re: Replacement for the Honda ST1300 in 2014?

FWIW, I recently spoke with someone who works for Honda Canada and he was more willing to talk about the future of the ST than the American Honda people I have asked. He told me that Honda had a 3-bike plan for the new 1200 V-4: the VFR (which was introduced in 2010), the CrossTourer (which has been available in markets outside North America since 2011), and an ST1200. According to him, Honda built some prototypes of the ST with plans to produce it commercially, but when the world economy tanked it got shelved. I asked him if he knew Honda's plan for the ST and he said my guess was as good as his. I asked about the possibility of the CrossTourer coming to North America and he said he'd love to see it but has no information about Honda's plans. I asked if small displacement motors were getting Honda's attention these days and he said, "Oh, yeah."

So we're still in the dark, but separate sources seem to be on the same dark page about Honda's plans.
 

Mellow

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Re: Replacement for the Honda ST1300 in 2014?

Well... if you have 100 customers that would definitely by a $500 item BUT you have 100,000 customers that would buy a $50 item.. which would you market to?
 
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Re: Replacement for the Honda ST1300 in 2014? A short article with responses.

Depends on how much I was losing on each one. :D
"Volume it's what we do" LINK

Honda production volume
LINK
 
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Re: Replacement for the Honda ST1300 in 2014?

O.K., either a sixth gear OR taller gearing. I want it for the MPG increase. If I were casually wandering through the back country on 2-lane roads, 5th works fine. Hit 80 on the highway and watch the MPG drop like a brick- and not just from the aerodynamics, but due to the engine speed past the revs. While not totally scientific, I can watch the MPG readout at various speeds, and see it stay relatively stable in 5th up to around 68-70mph. Past that it drops fast. The same thing happened with my KLR, but an increase in countershaft sprocket size raised the "sweet spot" for fuel mileage. Its clear these bikes were intended for 50-65mph speeds, anything much past that and they drink like a thirsty sailor on shore leave.
Yup. ST13 turning about 4250 RPM staying with freeway traffic around here. I'm not passing many folks at that RPM. Tough to break 40 MPG for a freeway day. Would be nice if RPM's were lower at freeway speeds. I've had 450 cc machines with 6 gears. Whatever that is worth.
 
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Re: Replacement for the Honda ST1300 in 2014?

Yup. ST13 turning about 4250 RPM staying with freeway traffic around here. I'm not passing many folks at that RPM. Tough to break 40 MPG for a freeway day. Would be nice if RPM's were lower at freeway speeds. I've had 450 cc machines with 6 gears. Whatever that is worth.
I'm closer to 5K for the half of the commute that's freeway the rest is stop n go but that works out to a squeak over 40mpg for me.
Windshield is all the way down unless it's raining and cropped 2" short which might help a little.
(actual miles/gal not the avg mpg guesser which is a little pessimistic)
 
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Re: Replacement for the Honda ST1300 in 2014?

I think if Honda's goes with the VFR1200 platform for the ST 2014+? variant a 6 speed is a given anyway as both the VFR and Crosstourer have 6 speeds.
 
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Re: Replacement for the Honda ST1300 in 2014?

I'm closer to 5K for the half of the commute that's freeway the rest is stop n go but that works out to a squeak over 40mpg for me.
Windshield is all the way down unless it's raining and cropped 2" short which might help a little.
(actual miles/gal not the avg mpg guesser which is a little pessimistic)
Not sure your point? You like droning on at 5k all day? I would like it a tad lower at freeway speed. My point of a taller high gear or maybe 6 speed. Maybe the ST wouldn't get better mileage. Might need lower weight for that? I rode up to Canada a few weeks back and got just 38 MPG calculated from fill-ups. All Thruway and the similar roads staying with traffic and not very windy. Bucking a wind I've dropped below 35 MPG many times. Been the same since the bike was new.
 
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Re: Replacement for the Honda ST1300 in 2014?

I heard in order to be lighter.... the new frame will be made of recycled aluminum & plastic, drivetrain will have belt drive & CVT, and a high nitrogen blend in the tires.

And a beak.... it will have a beak. All the newer cool bikes have beaks. :)
:potstir1: And don't forget synthetic oil as a requirement!

Personally I would not buy an ST with a VFR engine. I like the VFR engine- very much. But its a bit high-strung for what I want in a sport-TOURER. I like power & speed...when I'm playing around. When I hit the road for a trip I want reliability, comfort, fuel economy, and a 75-80mph cruising speed. There are lots of sportbikes I can buy for a playbike. How many VFRs have 200k+ miles on them without digging into the engine? Honda already has a VFR...they don't need another one.
 

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Re: Replacement for the Honda ST1300 in 2014?

:potstir1: And don't forget synthetic oil as a requirement!

Personally I would not buy an ST with a VFR engine. I like the VFR engine- very much. But its a bit high-strung for what I want in a sport-TOURER. I like power & speed...when I'm playing around. When I hit the road for a trip I want reliability, comfort, fuel economy, and a 75-80mph cruising speed. There are lots of sportbikes I can buy for a playbike. How many VFRs have 200k+ miles on them without digging into the engine? Honda already has a VFR...they don't need another one.
Most engines that are repurposed from sport bikes to sport-touring bikes are "detuned". An example is the engine in the Connie C14. It started out as a rip snorting sport bike mill in the Ninja ZX14, but was modified to produce more mid-range power suitable for the Connie. So the factory gets to keep the savings from reusing their production line by modifying the cams, timing, whatever to make the engine work in more than one model.

Before I forget, it would be nice if I didn't have to put premium gas in the next bike.
 
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Re: Replacement for the Honda ST1300 in 2014?

Power & torque to make use of the gear, and efficiency are two different things. Our STs could happily cross the country on the interstate in 3rd gear; it doesn't mean I want to pay for the fuel to do it. I'd rather downshift to a lower gear the times I want better acceleration, than to not have the gearing to efficiently run at realistic highway speeds. I wish I still had access to a fully equipped machine shop; I'd love to make a custom set of gears just to test the theory that our engines could easily handle lower RPMs on the highway and increase the MPG.
 
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Re: Replacement for the Honda ST1300 in 2014?

Power & torque to make use of the gear, and efficiency are two different things. Our STs could happily cross the country on the interstate in 3rd gear; it doesn't mean I want to pay for the fuel to do it. I'd rather downshift to a lower gear the times I want better acceleration, than to not have the gearing to efficiently run at realistic highway speeds. I wish I still had access to a fully equipped machine shop; I'd love to make a custom set of gears just to test the theory that our engines could easily handle lower RPMs on the highway and increase the MPG.
Yeah. if we were running sprockets there would be a bunch of combinations already explored. LOL.
 
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Re: Replacement for the Honda ST1300 in 2014? A short article with responses.

If vfr1200f is going to be the new st than they have to do some improvements because most says that the bike doesn't like to turn...
Legs get cramped too much, which i agree, tested myself. I like the vfr1200f's final drive though, no bulk at the wheel, no flange, no rubber dumpers, no molly grease, no heat issue. Lighter, much lighter on all that moving rotating parts.
 
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