Replacement for the Honda ST1300 in 20??

Dinkie Diesel

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Re: Replacement for the Honda ST1300 in 2014?

And it is for that reason I prefer the sound of an inline 4 over the V-4. My brain can only comprehend symmetry. :D
 

dduelin

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What's the is the difference in how they operate? Why would you choose one over the other?
The firing order of a 360 degree V4 has a long pause between two shorter intervals. Honda racing bikes used that to great advantage as the pause allows an overstressed rear tire to "hook up" during the long pause and get prepared to absorb another closely spaced series of bang bangs. Ironically for us ST1300 riders it is a harsher firing sequence than a 180 degree V4 with its smoother firing sequence. Honda muted that considerably in production bikes and added two counterbalancers in the ST to smooth it out. In racing the 360 gives more drive off the corners at the expense of perhaps a little more weight in the crankshaft as it needs more strength than a 180 crank. This is because all 4 journals are on one side of the crank. The two and two journals of a 180 are opposed to the other like the pedals on a bicycle. A 360 also needs more flywheel to operate smoothly compared to a 180.

In our street touring application the difference probably comes down to little more than the sound the engine makes. VFRs make music with the 180 crankshaft. That means a lot in a sport bike competing with inline fours that scream when revved to high rpms.
 
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Re: Replacement for the Honda ST1300 in 2014?

I think that the Yamaha Super T features a 360 crank with the same pitch, it gives the rear wheel time to hook up in the dirt.
 

dduelin

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Re: Replacement for the Honda ST1300 in 2014?

The Yamaha is a parallel twin and uses a 270 degree crank if I am not mistaken. The NC700 is the same and yes, the long pause 540 degree pause ........... Bang bang..........,pause allows the rear tire to hook up. (Not that the 51 horsepower NC engine is in danger of over stressing its rear tire!)
 
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ST13Fred

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Re: Replacement for the Honda ST1300 in 2014?

The V-4 engines can have different crank shaft throw angles, giving different firing orders, which changes the firing pulses at the exhaust and thus the character of the engine.
Knowing which degree crank shaft is in which V-4 is a little more hard to identify and not normally given in new bike write ups.

The Yamaha inline-4 Cross Plane crank seems like a real winner to me in getting power to the ground.

I've not found any data to the pros and cons of a 180, 270 or 360 degree crank shaft comparison or a chart showing the different Honda V-4 engine crank configurations over the years.

http://world.honda.com/Global-700cc-engine/Tech-details/
 

dduelin

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Re: Replacement for the Honda ST1300 in 2014?

The V-4 engines can have different crank shaft throw angles, giving different firing orders, which changes the firing pulses at the exhaust and thus the character of the engine.
Knowing which degree crank shaft is in which V-4 is a little more hard to identify and not normally given in new bike write ups.

The Yamaha inline-4 Cross Plane crank seems like a real winner to me in getting power to the ground.

I've not found any data to the pros and cons of a 180, 270 or 360 degree crank shaft comparison or a chart showing the different Honda V-4 engine crank configurations over the years.

http://world.honda.com/Global-700cc-engine/Tech-details/
You can Google "180 degree crankshaft v4 vs 360 degree crankshaft" and get a evening of reading on V4s but you have to wade through a lot of BS. I have Ian Fallons superb book, The Honda Story (2005 Haynes Publishing), that details Honda racing and production bikes from 1947 to 2005. Of course, there is extensive discussion of V4s in this book.
 

ST13Fred

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Re: Replacement for the Honda ST1300 in 2014?

The Honda Story pub looks like a good read, with good reviews about the technical side of Honda and its motors, so I ordered one. Thanks for the heads up.
The Google search directs one to forum chats that require filtering out the BS, as you say, from fact.
 
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Re: Replacement for the Honda ST1300 in 2014?

I had a '97 VFR and the sound was intoxicating. What the youtube gent failed to mention was the music from the gear driven cam's.. When you wacked the throttle it sounded like a multicylinder Formula one car up to about 80 mph. At that time the wind noise would dround out the music... Schei?e, I loved that bike....

Here is an interesting explanation of the VFR V-4 engine.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwEbwKBic6w[/QUOTE]

 
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dduelin

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Re: Replacement for the Honda ST1300 in 2014?

I had a '97 VFR and the sound was intoxicating. What the youtube gent failed to mention was the music from the gear driven cam's.. When you wacked the throttle it sounded like a multicylinder Formula one car up to about 80 mph. At that time the wind noise would dround out the music... Schei?e, I loved that bike....
Ah so. I had a 1998 VFR with a Staintune exhaust. Beautiful music.

Sorry for the thread hijack off on this V4 tangent. Despite the derision often heaped on the sound the Honda 360 degree crank engines make I often watch this 10 minute clip of Joey Dunlop on a factory RS850 road racer and love the sound and of course the commentary on the bike and the TT course. When Dunlop was coming out of some of the corners and comes on the throttle with the tach down around 5000 rpm (about the 9 o'clock position on the tach) and pulls it out to 11,000 you can hear the distinctive sound 360 crank motors make, particulary in the low to mid range of the tach. The combination of inlet noise and the flat drone of the exhaust notes rising - go ride your ST1300 tomorrow morning - ear plugs out - and listen for the same notes between 4,000 and 9,000 rpm. We hear it more through the airbox and the sound is quickly overcome by wind noise as 2nd gear winds out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OmCYy3gXBIw&feature=share
 
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Re: Replacement for the Honda ST1300 in 2014?

Jack, there are a couple threads with info on the 1300. Also, a quick Google search turns up a lot. I don't particularly like the look but I'm not in Honda marketing either. :D
 

ST13Fred

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Re: Replacement for the Honda ST1300 in 2014?

The CTX is strictly in the cruiser class, very low seating and feet generally forward. Probably limited side clearance to boot and looks like a milder tuned 1261 motor. Certainly not my kinda' bike. Flat ugly, IMO.
 

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Re: Replacement for the Honda ST1300 in 2014?

"Replacement for the Honda ST1300 in 2014?"

I've already seen one, and this is what it looked like ...



:D
 
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Re: Replacement for the Honda ST1300 in 2014?

Ah so. I had a 1998 VFR with a Staintune exhaust. Beautiful music.
Thanks for reminding me, Dave. I had a staintune on my bike also.. Beautiful Chrome job. I have Staintunes on my ST also... Great pipes but pricy...
 
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Re: Replacement for the Honda ST1300 in 2014?

"Replacement for the Honda ST1300 in 2014?"

I've already seen one, and this is what it looked like ...



:D
In my book you are better designer than the designers at Honda. Looks good too. I am sure it must have cost Honda tribilimilions to develop such a thing ;)
Is there a possibility that you might make a bigger gas tank? I am planning to send these pictures to Honda, maybe they'll wake up and start studying on this bike...
 
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Re: Replacement for the Honda ST1300 in 2014?

"Replacement for the Honda ST1300 in 2014?" I've already seen one, and this is what it looked like ...
Wait a minute... that can't be right. That doesn't look anything like a DN-01!
 
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Re: Replacement for the Honda ST1300 in 2014?

Here's the replacement for the ST1300: 2014 CTX 1300.

ctx1300-1-620x350.jpg

ctx1300-2-620x350.jpg

ctx1300-3-620x350.jpg

I've waited for years for an ST1300 with a better front fork, but Honda never made one iota of improvement to it in 10 years. Now they put an inverted fork on it, but turn the rest of the bike into a cruiser! How ironic is that?

This makes me even happier that I ordered the 2014 Yamaha FJR1300 ES this week!
 
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Re: Replacement for the Honda ST1300 in 2014?

the more I look at it---the more I like the look. I have always wondered how the ST1300 would look dressed with less and chrome covers on the exhaust. Now about that electronic cruise cont----
 
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