Replacement for the Honda ST1300 in 20??

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Joe
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Re: Replacement for the Honda ST1300 in 2014?

The same thing that Kawasaki and BMW and Ducati and Triumph and maybe Suzuki have to do with it! :)
I got it... just took me a second.. LOL
 

ELC

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Re: isappointed

"I was looking for a new Dyna ignition module for it and they don't make them anymore"

Hey Valkman, I'll be happy to sell you a Dyna 3000, but you have to take the Valk that it sits in too.
It has a belly tank (3 gallons) and a Hoppe fairing as well.

Eric
 
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Re: Replacement for the Honda ST1300 in 2014?

Glen, why do you still think it would cost so much more for Honda to build a competitive Sport Tourer than other brands (post 1118)? Some of the others are offering theirs for half what you implied Honda would have to sell theirs for. We aren't asking for unicorns here, we just want a modern, competitive bike with competitive options for a competitive price.

Sent from my XT881 using Tapatalk 2
 
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Re: Replacement for the Honda ST1300 in 2014?

Perhaps if we all mind melted at the exact same moment (gotta have aluminum foil hats on) and projected the wishes of a 2014 ST1300 with comparable 2014 FJR1300 improvements to Mother Honda, we shall be blessed with a "dream machine" :D
 
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Re: Replacement for the Honda ST1300 in 2014?

Glen, why do you still think it would cost so much more for Honda to build a competitive Sport Tourer than other brands (post 1118)? Some of the others are offering theirs for half what you implied Honda would have to sell theirs for. We aren't asking for unicorns here, we just want a modern, competitive bike with competitive options for a competitive price.
There are a number of discussions going on here. One is about the possibility of Honda releasing the VFR1200T and possible reasons why Honda (may have) backed down from that decision. If Honda released the VFR1200T, then it would be based on the shared technologies of the other VFR1200 releases, which means shared costs of development and lower pricing. However, if the VFR1200T was real, then all the evidence points to Honda backing away from releasing it. That suggests (at least to me) that Honda decided that it could not sell enough VFR1200Ts at a price which was competitive with the FJR and it wasn't going to be able to break into boutique markets occupied by companies like BMW.

Another discussion, is by people who don't want anything but a new, redesigned ST1300. That approach would be a stand-alone model which had to bear the entire cost of development. So the theory is that, if the VFR1200T wasn't going to fly financially for Honda, then building an all-new ST1300 was even less likely to fly.

I'm going to assume that folks at Motus are not stupid and have done their homework on market share etc. But their pricing might be higher for labour etc. So let's say that Honda could build a Motus for $5000 less than Motus could. That's still $25k.

Bike pricing is really interesting. The BMW S1000RR is packed with innovation and new technologies, but sells for half of a fully kitted K1600GT or R1200GS. Does BMW make money on the S1000RR? Do they make more money on the R1200GS? Probably.

The other discussion is why Honda is been steadily raising the price of the ST1300. Again, it seems to point to the idea that they are losing money on the ST13, rather than turning it into a cash cow (like the R1200GS). It just doesn't sell well enough.

Any product has to compete at a certain price point and given market share. I think that we have established that Honda buyers are not boutique buyers, so any ST replacement would have to compete with the established market leaders and existing, highly refined products (thinking FJR). I can't think of any other reason, other than cost and profit, that the VFR1200T was not released.
 

SupraSabre

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Re: Replacement for the Honda ST1300 in 2014?

There are a number of discussions going on here.
.....
Sheesh, why do some people have to interject financial logic here?

We don't care about all of that!

We just want a ST1300 that will give us all the bells and whistles that we want, at a low price, that most couldn't afford anyway! :eek:4:

What's so hard about that....other than it would be too expensive to produce! :p:
 

Bones

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Re: Replacement for the Honda ST1300 in 2014?

I can't think of any other reason, other than cost and profit, that the VFR1200T was not released.
What other reason would there be? If we assume that Honda is in business to make money, which I think is a fair assumption, it's pretty safe to conclude that it doesn't want to market products that it does not believe will return a profit. If or when Honda has an ST replacement they are ready to start selling, they will tell the world. Until then, we will be in the dark, despite rehashes in Motorcyclist of 4-year-old prognostications from Motorcycle Daily.

We can guess all we want...it's all conjecture.
 
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Re: Replacement for the Honda ST1300 in 2014?

There are a number of discussions going on here. One is about the possibility of Honda releasing the VFR1200T and possible reasons why Honda (may have) backed down from that decision. If Honda released the VFR1200T, then it would be based on the shared technologies of the other VFR1200 releases, which means shared costs of development and lower pricing. However, if the VFR1200T was real, then all the evidence points to Honda backing away from releasing it. That suggests (at least to me) that Honda decided that it could not sell enough VFR1200Ts at a price which was competitive with the FJR and it wasn't going to be able to break into boutique markets occupied by companies like BMW.
The other discussion is why Honda is been steadily raising the price of the ST1300. Again, it seems to point to the idea that they are losing money on the ST13, rather than turning it into a cash cow (like the R1200GS). It just doesn't sell well enough.
...
Maybe the evidence points to them backing away, or maybe it points to a delay. The 1200F came out in 2010. The 1200X in 2012. I still think there is a good chance the 1200T will show up in 2014, maybe next month in Milan but more likely in February. One way or another, we will know something soon because I can't see honda leaving the 2012 ST1300 on their web site after there 2014 line has been completely introduced. Either the 1200F comes out or a 2014 ST shows up or the ST or anything like it just disappears from Honda's line.
 

Blrfl

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Re: Replacement for the Honda ST1300 in 2014?

The other discussion is why Honda is been steadily raising the price of the ST1300. Again, it seems to point to the idea that they are losing money on the ST13, rather than turning it into a cash cow (like the R1200GS). It just doesn't sell well enough.
So, of course, if you want more people to buy a product that isn't selling, the logical thing to do is increase the price. :rolleyes:

Why the price of an ST keeps going up has been covered numerous times, including once in this thread just over a month ago and in slightly more detail here.

--Mark
 
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Re: Replacement for the Honda ST1300 in 2014?

Maybe the evidence points to them backing away, or maybe it points to a delay. The 1200F came out in 2010. The 1200X in 2012. I still think there is a good chance the 1200T will show up in 2014, maybe next month in Milan but more likely in February. One way or another, we will know something soon because I can't see honda leaving the 2012 ST1300 on their web site after there 2014 line has been completely introduced. Either the 1200F comes out or a 2014 ST shows up or the ST or anything like it just disappears from Honda's line.
As an aside, one could reasonably assume that the VFR1200 based CrossTourer might have a reasonable chance of selling well in North America, given the growing popularity of the ADV market here, yet even that existing Honda model was not introduced here. That indicates that even the costs of distribution and support have an impact on what Honda decides to sell and where.
 

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Re: isappointed

Ur correction Bmcdonau, the FJR is 2 kg heaver than the Pan1300 according to my stats
Keith
2014 FJR1300 weighs 637 wet (639 wet for CA model)
http://www.yamahamotorsports.com/sport/products/modelspecs/180/0/specs.aspx

2012 ST1300 weighs 730 pounds wet
http://powersports.honda.com/2012/st1300/specifications.aspx

Both manufacturers indicated that these weights are for bikes with all standard equipment, all fluids, and a full tank of fuel, ready to ride.
 
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Re: isappointed

Ur correction Bmcdonau, the FJR is 2 kg heaver than the Pan1300 according to my stats
Keith
Yamaha's website says the FJR weights 637 lbs and Honda's website says the ST has a curb weight of 730 lbs with ABS. The Honda figure is with a full tank of gas while Yamaha says its a "wet" weight.
 
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Re: isappointed

2014 FJR1300 weighs 637 wet (639 wet for CA model)
http://www.yamahamotorsports.com/sport/products/modelspecs/180/0/specs.aspx

2012 ST1300 weighs 730 pounds wet
http://powersports.honda.com/2012/st1300/specifications.aspx

Both manufacturers indicated that these weights are for bikes with all standard equipment, all fluids, and a full tank of fuel, ready to ride.
I didn't realize you beat me to it! Even though the Yamaha was lighter I went with the Triumph because it was closer to the ST in ergonomics.
 
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Re: Replacement for the Honda ST1300 in 2014?

As an aside, one could reasonably assume that the VFR1200 based CrossTourer might have a reasonable chance of selling well in North America, given the growing popularity of the ADV market here, yet even that existing Honda model was not introduced here. That indicates that even the costs of distribution and support have an impact on what Honda decides to sell and where.
True. How annoying it would be if the 1200T were released... but not in the US.
 

bdalameda

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Re: Replacement for the Honda ST1300 in 2014?

Latest Motorcyclist Magazine has reported that Honda will be releasing the VFR1200T V4 soon and new photos have been leaked though not shown in the magazine. Report is that it might have automatic dual clutch transmission as and option as well as well as a safety crumple-zone fairing and airbag setup. Honda applied for a patent for this system a couple of years ago. It is also reported that it may have cylinder deactivation technology that could improve fuel economy by 30%. Most of these rumors have been floating around for a while - apparently Honda was originally going to release this bike back in 2010 but the world economic slowdown put it on hold for a bit.
 
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