moddy
the mod
Yes yes yes, but are the connections still duct taped?
Engine quit - request for diagnosis assistance
- Thread starter smunderdog
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Yep! 
moddy
the mod
Ha ha. AND, that will hold til the stars turn cold, happy radioing.
- Joined
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- Springville, Indiana
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Nathan, any more ride time?? just wondering how it is doing now? I've had trouble getting on here and staying on the last few days.
OP
OP
Just another hour or so of city riding...still running great!
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Great! glad to hear it is back.
moddy
the mod
Yes, a running ST is the way it should be.
OP
OP
Going to revive this thread instead of starting a new one...so the solution to the last problem was a loose electrical connection to the fuel pump...
So after about 200 miles of riding, I was on my way home and the engine slowly starts to sound as though it is starving for fuel. Took longer to "die" than it had when the original fuel pump was going through the "heat seize" issues and longer to die than it did last summer when one of the electrical connections came loose on top of the fuel pump. But it did eventually die, so I coasted it off the highway and was lucky to get it off on a secondary road.
So I pop the cap on the fuel tank and it appears that there is still a decent amount of fuel - plus the gauge was still showing at least 1/2 tank (which is usually more like 1/3 or so - my gauge hardly moves for the first half of the tank and then sinks rapidly) left, so surely I wasn't out of gas.
I checked all of the electrical connections...and also let things cool down - both had proven to get the bike started before...this time no dice. As I hit the starter I can't see any fuel pumping into my clear fuel filter...
So off I went to see if someone might have some gas. Was able to get some and the tank took nearly 5 gallons to fill it up. This would indicate there was at least still 2 gallons in the tank, right?
Bike fired up as though nothing was wrong and ran perfectly the rest of the way home - another 70 miles or so. So it totally just acted as though I was just out of gas....
Thoughts?
So after about 200 miles of riding, I was on my way home and the engine slowly starts to sound as though it is starving for fuel. Took longer to "die" than it had when the original fuel pump was going through the "heat seize" issues and longer to die than it did last summer when one of the electrical connections came loose on top of the fuel pump. But it did eventually die, so I coasted it off the highway and was lucky to get it off on a secondary road.
So I pop the cap on the fuel tank and it appears that there is still a decent amount of fuel - plus the gauge was still showing at least 1/2 tank (which is usually more like 1/3 or so - my gauge hardly moves for the first half of the tank and then sinks rapidly) left, so surely I wasn't out of gas.
I checked all of the electrical connections...and also let things cool down - both had proven to get the bike started before...this time no dice. As I hit the starter I can't see any fuel pumping into my clear fuel filter...
So off I went to see if someone might have some gas. Was able to get some and the tank took nearly 5 gallons to fill it up. This would indicate there was at least still 2 gallons in the tank, right?
Bike fired up as though nothing was wrong and ran perfectly the rest of the way home - another 70 miles or so. So it totally just acted as though I was just out of gas....
Thoughts?
How deep in the tank is the fuel pickup strainer on your aftermarket fuel filter? Sounds like it is too shallow.
moddy
the mod
If you are absolutely sure of how much went in to fill it up, it is a 7.4 gallon tank. So there would have been 2.4 gallons most likely in the tank, more than necessary not to have these symptoms. Is this the first incident since the electrical connection?
- Joined
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Nathan, man I hate to hear that. Where were you when it quit? Must have been right after we talked & you headed north.
OP
OP
Good question - assume you mean the pickup strainer on the fuel PUMP - to my recollection the Airtex wasn't different than the OEM with respect to size and position in the tank. My next step will be to pull it back out and take a look though.
I put in almost all of what was in a 5 gallon gas can and that brought the gas level up to very near the filler hole, so there was definitely at least 2 gallons still in there. Yes - this was the first issue I've had since the electrical connection.
It happened just north of SR 44...so yes, shortly after we split up. Was able to coast off of SR 37 onto a cross road and get a local resident to drive me to the gas station, fill up her gas can and drive me back. Saved me a 2 mile walk each way.
I'll post an update after I've had a chance to pull the pump and take a peek.
moddy
the mod
Even though a new pump went in, it could be the pump if it's not the electrical connection. An indication that it has run out of fuel when fuel is present, is the pump has to work harder to bring fuel higher. When your tank is full there is less distance for it to travel to the carburetor. The next step would be to to disconnect the fuel hose at the fuel filter and see what the rate of fuel is being pumped out. If it is good with a tank that has more in it. Remove enough fuel to see if it will pump the same amount when there is less.
OP
OP
Update on this issue.
Rolled the dice and decided that I'd give my Bun Burner Gold ride a shot without knowing for 100% that I solved the problem. I did change out the fuel filter just in case that was an issue, but the filter I removed still looked pretty new.
Full ride report is here:
https://www.st-owners.com/forums/showthread.php?128265-Bun-Burner-Gold-attempt&highlight=
Wouldn't you know it, but during the BBG it did it again just as I was passing through Iowa. Similar symptoms to what happened most recently. Running fine for hundreds of miles that included one fuel stop where the fuel level was less than 1/2 tank when I filled back up. The next stop was just at a rest area and fuel level was near 1/2 tank or so. Off and on the bike in less than 5 minutes and within 2 miles of being back on the highway at speed it acted starved for fuel and quit. Wouldn't initially start even with the choke on...after about 30 minutes or so it eventually fired up without me doing anything to it other than check the electrical connections on top of the tank.
The rest of my BBG to Colorado and the entire SS1000 back home 4 days later it ran without any issue. I refueled when at or just a little past 1/2 tank to play it safe and also never stopped without refueling the rest of the trip.
Fast forward to the past week. 3 separate nights I was doing some motovideo camera work 12 miles away from my house at a track meet. This entailed riding the bike to the track (no problems), running it anywhere from 2 minutes to 14 minutes at a time and shutting it off for ~10 minutes between each race. Then I rode 12 miles home on city streets.
2 out of the 3 nights when I was 10 miles into my ride home it started sputtering. Both times it had at least 3/4 of a tank of fuel.
The first time I was able to pull in the clutch, let off the throttle and coast it onto a side street with the engine still running. I was able to ride it slowly with very minimal throttle input on a side street for about a mile and then I could hear and feel the engine running normally again, so I applied normal throttle and it ran fine the last mile home.
The second time I wasn't able to pull in the clutch and coast to a side street and it died on me just as I pulled off the main road I was on. It would not fire with the choke off, but I was immediately able to get it fired back up only by applying full choke.
So...this really seems fuel related to me, right? Thoughts on how to diagnosis it when it happens so intermittently and always when I'm out on a ride (can't replicate the issue in the garage I don't think)....
I admittedly don't fully understand what the fuel relay does, but ladder106's post over in this thread sure sounds like what I'm dealing with:
https://www.st-owners.com/forums/showthread.php?127541-ST1100-won-t-start-when-hot/page8
Thoughts?
Rolled the dice and decided that I'd give my Bun Burner Gold ride a shot without knowing for 100% that I solved the problem. I did change out the fuel filter just in case that was an issue, but the filter I removed still looked pretty new.
Full ride report is here:
https://www.st-owners.com/forums/showthread.php?128265-Bun-Burner-Gold-attempt&highlight=
Wouldn't you know it, but during the BBG it did it again just as I was passing through Iowa. Similar symptoms to what happened most recently. Running fine for hundreds of miles that included one fuel stop where the fuel level was less than 1/2 tank when I filled back up. The next stop was just at a rest area and fuel level was near 1/2 tank or so. Off and on the bike in less than 5 minutes and within 2 miles of being back on the highway at speed it acted starved for fuel and quit. Wouldn't initially start even with the choke on...after about 30 minutes or so it eventually fired up without me doing anything to it other than check the electrical connections on top of the tank.
The rest of my BBG to Colorado and the entire SS1000 back home 4 days later it ran without any issue. I refueled when at or just a little past 1/2 tank to play it safe and also never stopped without refueling the rest of the trip.
Fast forward to the past week. 3 separate nights I was doing some motovideo camera work 12 miles away from my house at a track meet. This entailed riding the bike to the track (no problems), running it anywhere from 2 minutes to 14 minutes at a time and shutting it off for ~10 minutes between each race. Then I rode 12 miles home on city streets.
2 out of the 3 nights when I was 10 miles into my ride home it started sputtering. Both times it had at least 3/4 of a tank of fuel.
The first time I was able to pull in the clutch, let off the throttle and coast it onto a side street with the engine still running. I was able to ride it slowly with very minimal throttle input on a side street for about a mile and then I could hear and feel the engine running normally again, so I applied normal throttle and it ran fine the last mile home.
The second time I wasn't able to pull in the clutch and coast to a side street and it died on me just as I pulled off the main road I was on. It would not fire with the choke off, but I was immediately able to get it fired back up only by applying full choke.
So...this really seems fuel related to me, right? Thoughts on how to diagnosis it when it happens so intermittently and always when I'm out on a ride (can't replicate the issue in the garage I don't think)....
I admittedly don't fully understand what the fuel relay does, but ladder106's post over in this thread sure sounds like what I'm dealing with:
https://www.st-owners.com/forums/showthread.php?127541-ST1100-won-t-start-when-hot/page8
Thoughts?
I have not read the full post but I had similar problems recently with my 1100 and it was the diaphragm in the fuel cut of that caused the
problem New diaphram and shes happy again
Just read some more on your fault and see fuel cut off has been bypassed
problem New diaphram and shes happy again
Just read some more on your fault and see fuel cut off has been bypassed
Last edited:
- Joined
- Sep 26, 2011
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- 757
- Location
- Springville, Indiana
- Bike
- 2000 ST1100
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- 8497
Nathan, do you want to try the fuel relay from my 91 and see if that makes a difference for you??
OP
OP
Gary,
I'd be up for that if the consensus here is that my symptoms sound like that could be the cause...
I'd be up for that if the consensus here is that my symptoms sound like that could be the cause...
- Joined
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- Springville, Indiana
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- 2000 ST1100
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- 8497
I have all the relays off the harness and in a box. We are back to work next week, but I could be home by 4:00 if you want to stop by and switch it out.
ST1100Y
Site Supporter
IIRC could there be heat related issues with the crimp connectors on the ignition coils... has this been checked/eliminated?
OP
OP
Gary - can't make it down this week. Will let you know when I might have a chance to cruise down and we can give that a shot.
This has not been checked...or even brought up IIRC until now. I haven't had a chance to search the forum - is there a thread somewhere that gets into this at any level?