FI Light and Vacume Hose Issues

Igofar · Jan 12, 2013

I think I may have solved the FI and poor idle issues several of us have been having lately!
JustyTroll stopped by today with the flashing FI light and poor idle/die routine. I've fixed a few of these by running pipe cleaners through the vacume hoses and cleaning all of them as well as the black 5-Way-T. On several bikes I've found that it was THE LINE running from the map sensor to the five way connector that was clogged, not the 5 way connector, and after a quick cleaning all was well again. However, tonight I replaced all Troll's lines with new hoses and extended them up front for easier access. It was as I was picking up the old lines off the bench that I noticed that they felt really stiff, dry and coarse feeling. I scraped the outside of the hose with my fingernail and it crumbled! I took a razor blade and opened one up to find the inside of the hose was rotting away and when I scraped the inside with my thumbnail, I got ALOT of goop off the surface of the rubber itself. The pipe cleaners were soft enough that it was not cleaning or removing the goop, only brushing by it, giving the appearance of a clean unobstructed line. I would not have known the inside of the hose was rotting.
If your having FI issues, and you pull the lines to inspect them, I'd suggest you simply go to autozone and spend $5 bucks on new 4mm vacume line and replace the lines. I plan on doing this as yearly maintence from now on...
And before anyone replies that "I have 114,000 miles on my bike and the hoses are fine"....I'm just trying to provide folks with more ideas to get their bikes running the best they can.
After I replaced the Troll's lines tonight, we did the TB sync, and got the levels dead even. So I think new lines do help. YMMV.
Ride safe
Igofar

redst05 · Jan 12, 2013

Thanks for the info.. When this happens again for me I will change out all the the lines..

SupraSabre · Jan 12, 2013

Larry, I had that blockage before too. About a year ago I replaced the ones in the '05 with silicone. Just wondering if that will make a difference of the hose not falling apart. We'll see I guess.

dduelin · Jan 13, 2013

Igofar said:
I think I may have solved the FI and poor idle issues several of us have been having lately!
JustyTroll stopped by today with the flashing FI light and poor idle/die routine. I've fixed a few of these by running pipe cleaners through the vacume hoses and cleaning all of them as well as the black 5-Way-T. On several bikes I've found that it was THE LINE running from the map sensor to the five way connector that was clogged, not the 5 way connector, and after a quick cleaning all was well again. However, tonight I replaced all Troll's lines with new hoses and extended them up front for easier access. It was as I was picking up the old lines off the bench that I noticed that they felt really stiff, dry and coarse feeling. I scraped the outside of the hose with my fingernail and it crumbled! I took a razor blade and opened one up to find the inside of the hose was rotting away and when I scraped the inside with my thumbnail, I got ALOT of goop off the surface of the rubber itself. The pipe cleaners were soft enough that it was not cleaning or removing the goop, only brushing by it, giving the appearance of a clean unobstructed line. I would not have known the inside of the hose was rotting.
If your having FI issues, and you pull the lines to inspect them, I'd suggest you simply go to autozone and spend $5 bucks on new 4mm vacume line and replace the lines. I plan on doing this as yearly maintence from now on...
And before anyone replies that "I have 114,000 miles on my bike and the hoses are fine"....I'm just trying to provide folks with more ideas to get their bikes running the best they can.
After I replaced the Troll's lines tonight, we did the TB sync, and got the levels dead even. So I think new lines do help. YMMV.
Ride safe
Igofar

At 116,000 miles that sounds like me.

Thanks for the tip and for repeating again.

My FI light came on a few times now with rough or no idle at a cold start but it has gone away upon warm up not to return for a few thousands of miles. If it happens repeatedly like this or won't go away I'll replace the lines at that time. Or if I ever have to remove the throttle bodies for something else.

There have been a few bikes with this problem (out of how many thousand) but is this really that serious of a problem in general?

To replace these hoses annually just because is akin to my family doctor calling me up to say "you are in your 50s and there is a 3% chance you'll need to have your gall bladder removed before you are 75. How about you come in next week and let me remove it?" My first thought would what about the higher risk of a poor outcome due to infection or some other complication from unneeded surgery. That would be a risk all out of balance with the benefit. I'd say, Doctor let's wait and see.

Along the same lines to go taking things apart for no reason risks stripping or breaking stuff or causing some other issue for no good reason other than there is slight chance you might get a FI light and a rough idle in the next 100,000 miles. Sometimes less is more.

Mellow · Jan 13, 2013

Like most things maintenance related.. just checking the condition of the rubber on the hoses should be enough. Identical bikes stored in different locations may or may not have similar issues. Just like a 10 year old tire might have enough tread but be hard as a rock... or a new tire could have a belt separated. So, just being watchful of certain conditions is good enough IMO.

Igofar · Jan 13, 2013

Mellow said:
Like most things maintenance related.. just checking the condition of the rubber on the hoses should be enough. Identical bikes stored in different locations may or may not have similar issues. Just like a 10 year old tire might have enough tread but be hard as a rock... or a new tire could have a belt separated. So, just being watchful of certain conditions is good enough IMO.

That was my point, I just wanted to let folks know that just running a pipe cleaner through the hoses or blowing through them may still conceal the real problem at hand. If a person has gone far enough into the bike to check the 5-way connector, that they should pull off a couple lines and check them to see if they feel brittle, stiff or rough, and if so, they may want to replace them at that time.
I've replaced the vacume lines on (8) bikes in the last two months, mostly on models between 2004-2007, so I'm guessing that the lines get hard and start rotting after five or six years....OR....it could be the stuff they are putting in our fuel here in Kalifornia LOL.
And as far as Statistics go.....More folks die in hospitals that in pie shops....but if I'm ever in an accident, don't take me to a pie shop :rofl1:

I just thought the Doctor and gall bladder thing was funny as heck :shrug2:

Tankereng · Jan 13, 2013

Well, I know where to go when my STeed needs a little freshening up under the tank....

Rick77 · Jan 13, 2013

Thanks for the heads up Larry! "I" appreciate the work and tips you've posted.

Scooter · Jan 13, 2013

Igofar said:
And before anyone replies that "I have 114,000 miles on my bike and the hoses are fine"....

That would be me...

Igofar · Jan 15, 2013

Worked on another ST Police motor tonight, FI flashing and idle problems among other things. You know what I found? When I pushed the pipe cleaner through the map sensor line, I pushed out a cute little tootsie roll looking glob of goo again! Bike is an 05, 40K miles, by the request of the owner, its getting all new coolant hoses, thermostat, brake and clutch bleed, preload service, spline service, tire repair, brake pads and calipers cleaned, and the TB sync.
I already replaced all the new vacuum lines and sync'd the TB's. Problem with FI light and idle gone.

NorCal_Ed · Jan 16, 2013

Wow Larry, knowing that Harvey and you have the same 07 model as I, this is something I'll have to check. Thanks for the heads up.

Justytroll · Jan 16, 2013

dduelin said:
At 116,000 miles that sounds like me. Thanks for the tip and for repeating again.

My FI light came on a few times now with rough or no idle at a cold start but it has gone away upon warm up not to return for a few thousands of miles. If it happens repeatedly like this or won't go away I'll replace the lines at that time. Or if I ever have to remove the throttle bodies for something else.

There have been a few bikes with this problem (out of how many thousand) but is this really that serious of a problem in general?

To replace these hoses annually just because is akin to my family doctor calling me up to say "you are in your 50s and there is a 3% chance you'll need to have your gall bladder removed before you are 75. How about you come in next week and let me remove it?" My first thought would what about the higher risk of a poor outcome due to infection or some other complication from unneeded surgery. That would be a risk all out of balance with the benefit. I'd say, Doctor let's wait and see.

Along the same lines to go taking things apart for no reason risks stripping or breaking stuff or causing some other issue for no good reason other than there is slight chance you might get a FI light and a rough idle in the next 100,000 miles. Sometimes less is more.

This is the second time this year that my FI light issue has appeared. On the first occasion we cleaned out the 5-way T but not the vacuum hoses. This time we cleaned the hoses... finding gunk... and then decided to replace them all. If the FI light comes on or the air box is replaced I think it's a reasonable PM to just replace the hoses. Personally, had I known the extent of this I would have installed something other than standard vacuum lines. Fuel grade hosing would be much more appropriate for this application. The oils/blow-by fumes and fuel backup associated with the function of these hoses really dictates a different type of hose. I like the idea of silicon or hard poly tubing with couplers. I will be looking for fuel grade solutions for the next time the box is off.

Igofar · Jan 17, 2013

I've got another bike scheduled for this Sunday...bet ya a donut that I find his map sensor line clogged

dduelin · Jan 17, 2013

Igofar said:
I've got another bike scheduled for this Sunday...bet ya a donut that I find his map sensor line clogged

I would bet a dollar to your donut and you would lose your donut.

Unless of course the FI light is on now with the other symptoms associated with failed MAP sensor. If it isn't on now and the bike is symptom free the line is passing enough air pressure for the MAP sensor to operate within specification. Therefore the line is not clogged although it might have some debris and goo in there - like your right descending artery at this exact moment - but not enough to require a stent or bypass at this time.

Igofar · Jan 17, 2013

dduelin said:
I would bet a dollar to your donut and you would lose your donut.

Unless of course the FI light is on now with the other symptoms associated with failed MAP sensor. If it isn't on now and the bike is symptom free the line is passing enough air pressure for the MAP sensor to operate within specification. Therefore the line is not clogged although it might have some debris and goo in there - like your right descending artery at this exact moment - but not enough to require a stent or bypass at this time.

Now why do you think he has it scheduled? Ooooh I know, Its would be like doing an anual check up at the doctor maybe :rofl1:

or maybe his FI light is flashing and he's having Idle problems...
Do you need a mailing address to ship that dollar too? Or you can donate it to any Cancer Research fund if you'd like.
Now take your thumbs and apply direct pressure to the large veins just below your ears and hold until you get light headed and fall down :scared2:

(just joking of course)

dduelin · Jan 17, 2013

If the bike had those symptoms no doubt check or replace the MAP hose but you did not say that it did so I assumed you were just going too far as in Igotoofar.

Throttlejockey · Jan 17, 2013

Break it up! Do you guys need a time out?

two_wheeled · Jan 17, 2013

Is this a job that requires the tupperware to come off, or just the tank?

Igofar · Jan 17, 2013

two_wheeled said:
Is this a job that requires the tupperware to come off, or just the tank?

This job can be done with a 8mm and 10mm socket, a 10mm wrench, a JIS screwdriver, and a morgan carb tune or similar tool.
Takes about an hour working slowly.
You can probably search the articals and find one about how to do it.
In a nutshell, remove seat(s), lift tank (per manuals instructions) remove air box lid, filter, snorkels, bases, and base housing, then remove map sensor switch and pull the (4) lines to the TB's.
Use tool, then put it back together.
PM me on the white courtesy phone if you have any questions and I'll try to assist you if I can :call:

Mellow · Jan 17, 2013

Igofar said:
This job can be done with a 8mm and 10mm socket, a 10mm wrench, a JIS screwdriver, and a morgan carb tune or similar tool.
Takes about an hour working slowly.
You can probably search the articals and find one about how to do it.
In a nutshell, remove seat(s), lift tank (per manuals instructions) remove air box lid, filter, snorkels, bases, and base housing, then remove map sensor switch and pull the (4) lines to the TB's.
Use tool, then put it back together.
PM me on the white courtesy phone if you have any questions and I'll try to assist you if I can :call:

You should put an article together Larry, that way you help hundreds not just the few near you or that call you.

FI Light and Vacume Hose Issues

Igofar

redst05

SupraSabre

48 Years of SoCal Lane Splitting/Commuting-Retired

dduelin

Tune my heart to sing Thy grace

Mellow

Joe

Igofar

Tankereng

Rick77

Scooter

This space for rent...

Igofar

NorCal_Ed

Justytroll

Igofar

dduelin

Tune my heart to sing Thy grace

Igofar

dduelin

Tune my heart to sing Thy grace

Throttlejockey

Padden is my hero

two_wheeled

Igofar

Mellow

Joe