Breeze Constant tension clamps - Still working for you?

SupraSabre · Feb 7, 2013

Has anyone looked into or tried the Gates Thermoplastic clamps? I just might try them on my ST1300 engine I'm building up for my 200K swap!

Igofar · Feb 7, 2013

SupraSabre said:
Has anyone looked into or tried the Gates Thermoplastic clamps? I just might try them on my ST1300 engine I'm building up for my 200K swap!

I've seen them used on diesel trucks when I used to build motors, and never saw one fail or leak, and this was in the trucking industry in Arizona where they would run at the mines and get really hot!
I thought about putting them on my bike, but was concerned that unless you installed them on the motor before installing the motor, I would not be able to use my heat gun to get all sides and areas of the seal.
The only downside for our application would be that its a one time use, and has to be cut off. I wouldn't worry about needing roadside repairs, simply because the ones I saw never leaked.
I may look into them the next time I replace all my hoses with new ones, I may try these at that time.

Igofar · Feb 7, 2013

Blrfl said:
I know you spend a lot of your life with your face under the hoods of cars, but the two in my garage and the three or four that came before them have all had wire spring clamps in the cooling system and worm gear clamps holding the sections of the air intake together. (Rayzerman had some useful information on that subject in another thread.) The last car I owned with worm gear clamps in the cooling system was a 1975 Plymouth.

I also know that some people balk at the price tag, and that's fine. For me, the benefits of not having to watch for leaks and not having to re-visit the cooling system have far outweighed the $25 cost for the clamps and the value of the time I spent putting them in.

Except that they do, and I have to go on the assumption that Honda installs the clamps correctly at the factory. After four applications (one at the factory, one at the STealer, one done to "yeah, that feels tight enough" and one done at the proper torque) resulted in leaks, I decided a constant-dimension clamp wasn't the right tool for the job and switched to constant-tension.

What style clamps were they using? I have a hard time seeing Belleville springs failing without being subjected to abuse they'd never see under the hood of a car.

--Mark

Both my new Honda SUV's have spring clamps on every hose! I was even considering matching the hose size and replacing the worm drive hoseclamps with the correct size spring tension clamp from my Element or CRV. I bet that would work. As someone said already, I'm guessing most of the leaking is due to over tightening or under tightening, the spring tension clamps eliminate that out of the problem. Harley uses steel pinched ear clamps on all their fuel lines now, so they can only be installed at one tension, eliminating this very issue. .02

nhdiesel · Feb 7, 2013

Blrfl said:
I know you spend a lot of your life with your face under the hoods of cars, but the two in my garage and the three or four that came before them have all had wire spring clamps in the cooling system and worm gear clamps holding the sections of the air intake together. (Rayzerman had some useful information on that subject in another thread.) The last car I owned with worm gear clamps in the cooling system was a 1975 Plymouth.

I see about half and half between spring clamps and worm clamps. Either one should work fine. The only issues I've had with either are that worm clamps tend to rust after a number of years in our winter environment, and the spring clamps can lose tension after a long period of time. Most techs simply replace them with worm clamps or new spring clamps.

Blrfl said:
What style clamps were they using? I have a hard time seeing Belleville springs failing without being subjected to abuse they'd never see under the hood of a car.

Similar to the image below. I've seen lots of the springs broken. Whether because the springs were faulty, temperature extremes, whatever...a broken spring leaves the clamp with no tension, and the hose leaks. I went through it on my own Dodge Cummins when I was tracking down a boost leak and found a couple springs broke. I replaced the clamps with quality worm clamps and never had another issue.

Igofar said:
Both my new Honda SUV's have spring clamps on every hose! I was even considering matching the hose size and replacing the worm drive hoseclamps with the correct size spring tension clamp from my Element or CRV. I bet that would work. As someone said already, I'm guessing most of the leaking is due to over tightening or under tightening, the spring tension clamps eliminate that out of the problem. Harley uses steel pinched ear clamps on all their fuel lines now, so they can only be installed at one tension, eliminating this very issue. .02

Those work well, but can lose tension as they get older, and are very difficult to buy (at least in my area). I like them because its a no brainer to install...tension is always right, and they continue to hold pressure even if the hose softens up. Even the dealers up here won't order them...they get replaced with worm clamps. If you can find a place to buy them, and match the size correctly, they would work well.

nhdiesel · Feb 7, 2013

Throttlejockey said:
Is it me or is there a lot of "tension" (pun intended) on the board lately? I think everyone is going stir crazy this winter.

Its all good. Things don't always come across as intended on the web...if this were real life, having these discussions in person, they would be done with frosty beverages and smiles. Almost like those discussions with friends over which actress is hottest...we all have our opinions and really stick to them.

MountainDew · Feb 8, 2013

Tension due to the winter weather or tension because of so many opinions. rock, paper, scissors. Yep, it's the weather!

Blrfl · Feb 8, 2013

nhdiesel said:
Similar to the image below. I've seen lots of the springs broken. Whether because the springs were faulty, temperature extremes, whatever...a broken spring leaves the clamp with no tension, and the hose leaks.

Those are T-bolt clamps, which aren't what I and others are using. The Breeze clamps are worm gear clamps with a stack of Belleville springs between the casing and bolt head that force the worm gear to maintain its pull on the band:

full_size_constant_torque_carbon_screw_add1-250x250.jpg

--Mark

nhdiesel · Feb 8, 2013

They still use the springs, which are the weak point. My bigger point is, why is it so many seem to have a problem with commonly used clamps on our Hondas, yet the very same clamps hardly ever leak on cages...which see far more temperature extremes? That tells me its not the TYPE of clamp, but rather either improper installation, or poor quality (not poor type) of clamps. Since not all of our bikes leak, I would suspect improper installation- either too loose, or too tight. And if someone can't manage to install a regular worm clamp at the proper tension, I wouldn't let them install a spring clamp, which is even more important to have set at the correct tension.

Blrfl · Feb 11, 2013

Well, I guess I'll be turning in my wrenches, then.

--Mark

ST_korn · Feb 11, 2013

Brlfl,

Thanks for the post with the link to belleville springs. That's pretty cool. Hopefully if the design works in artillery pieces, it will stay together and keep my hoses tight.

K

okmurdog · Feb 11, 2013

FYI re Belleville springs (washers) - this technology (stacking of Belleville washers) is used extensively in the metrology community to simulate a joint when testing devices that need to achieve a specified torque over a window of degrees of rotation. I've seen Belleville joints exercised many thousands of times, and I have yet to see a Belleville washer fail. A spring joint made from a Belleville washer stack is extremely robust.

T_C · Feb 11, 2013

I have seen them fail where you get them to flip. Instead of the load being applied from inner (small) to outer (large area), the center is driven down to much and the outer perimeter flips over. So now the small inner are is being directly applied to the force and the outer area is hanging in free space.

Not to say this could happen to a Breeze clamp, but bellevilles aint perfect.

EASt · Feb 11, 2013

Mine are holding up fantastically. Leak Free ST.

Pat S. · Apr 18, 2013

Thanks, Brlfl

My experience:

Tightening original clamps proved to be a temporary fix and lasted less then 6 months before the coolant smell and then the seep reappeared. The Breeze clamps have been in for a year and no smell and no seep. Breeze clamps have proven to be money well spent so far.

Catmandu2 · Feb 3, 2017

Just got my Breeze clamps, which I ordered from McMaster-Carr. The disk springs are bigger than I expected,,, but as long as they still fit in ok,, that should make each clamp stronger. The band width is 9/16",,, where as the oem clamps are only 5/16" wide. I am not planning to change to new hoses this time around,,, so I will have to give some thought to positioning, relative to the area of rubber already compressed by the oem clamp. Anyone else notice that,,, ?? Cat'

mcthorogood · Feb 3, 2017

I just replaced the hoses on my 1999 ST1100 and I was able to use the Breeze clamps in all locations except at the bottom end of the water pipe, where there isn't enough clearance for the stack of Belleville washers. I removed the PAIR system so I had plenty of room in the valley of the carbs.

BakerBoy · Feb 3, 2017

Catmandu2 said:
,,, so I will have to give some thought to positioning, relative to the area of rubber already compressed by the oem clamp. Anyone else notice that,,, ?? Cat'

Yes, see pics and discussion of this through the link in post #3 above.

Ozzie · Feb 4, 2017

Some of the equipment I maintain uses the spring type clamps, they work really good, except on the trench tampers, they work loose on the bellows boots constantly, causing the foot to twist. Now when I replace the bellows boots, I always install new clamps, and re-tighten a couple of times, this seems to have solved that issue. Toying with the idea of replacing all the hard to get to hoses and using them on the 13 when I start re-assembly.

Breeze Constant tension clamps - Still working for you?

SupraSabre

48 Years of SoCal Lane Splitting/Commuting-Retired

Igofar

Igofar

nhdiesel

nhdiesel

MountainDew

Blrfl

Natural Rider Enhancement

nhdiesel

Blrfl

Natural Rider Enhancement

ST_korn

okmurdog

Will Ride for Pie

T_C

EASt

Streuselkuchen

Pat S.

Catmandu2

mcthorogood

BakerBoy

It's all small stuff.

Ozzie