Got my ST1300 in May this year. Had less than 3k miles and they told me that the cam/timing chain jumped half on / half off of the gears. I was turning into the parking lot, gave her a little throttle and it proceeded to shake, rattle and rumble. Any body ever hear of cam/timing chain woes like this? With so few miles on a new bike?
2012 ST1300 cam/timing chain
- Thread starter fubartes
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Scooter
This space for rent...
Re: 2013 ST1300 cam/timing chain
I'd look at the cam chain tensioner first but even if it was completely loose I don't know how the chain could end up half on??? Can you get a picture of it?
BTW, I have never heard of this issue before on this bike. Keep us posted on the outcome...
I pasted in red what you had previously posted in your introductory thread since there was more info in it...
I'd look at the cam chain tensioner first but even if it was completely loose I don't know how the chain could end up half on??? Can you get a picture of it?
BTW, I have never heard of this issue before on this bike. Keep us posted on the outcome...
Highrider
Part time mechanic
Re: 2013 ST1300 cam/timing chain
Sorry to hear this happened on a new bike, Good thing it is a warranty issue. I'll be watching this one, let us know how this turns out.
Sorry to hear this happened on a new bike, Good thing it is a warranty issue. I'll be watching this one, let us know how this turns out.Re: 2013 ST1300 cam/timing chain
Hey Scooter,
Yeah, half on/half off is what they said. Like it had jumped a row of teeth? Is that possible? I've never seen one opened up. Does the chain have multiple rows or is it just a single row? Whatever it is, it really made some noise and vibration before it totally went silent.
So I start week 3 w/o my bike and don't have a ride for Labor day weekend. I know, stop my whinning.
My Harley buddies are riding this weekend and I used to tease them about breaking down, now I'm eating crow.
The dealer didn't call me, so I don't know if the Honda Tech rep showed up yesterday or not. I suppose they had to open up the engine to check for fragements and such. Anybody know what they have to inspect?
Hey Scooter,
Yeah, half on/half off is what they said. Like it had jumped a row of teeth? Is that possible? I've never seen one opened up. Does the chain have multiple rows or is it just a single row? Whatever it is, it really made some noise and vibration before it totally went silent.
So I start week 3 w/o my bike and don't have a ride for Labor day weekend. I know, stop my whinning.
My Harley buddies are riding this weekend and I used to tease them about breaking down, now I'm eating crow.The dealer didn't call me, so I don't know if the Honda Tech rep showed up yesterday or not. I suppose they had to open up the engine to check for fragements and such. Anybody know what they have to inspect?
Re: 2013 ST1300 cam/timing chain
There's nothing w/chain in the engine that's got a double row of teeth, it's all like bicycle sprockets - just one row - kinda strange sounding.. curious to see what happened. If the cam chain tensioner failed completely I could see the chain possibly jumping but this would be the first time I've ever heard of that.
There's nothing w/chain in the engine that's got a double row of teeth, it's all like bicycle sprockets - just one row - kinda strange sounding.. curious to see what happened. If the cam chain tensioner failed completely I could see the chain possibly jumping but this would be the first time I've ever heard of that.
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Re: 2013 ST1300 cam/timing chain
In the years associated with this bike and site this is the first instance I can remember of a manufacturing or parts defect in the timing chain or camshafts.
I can't even imagine the timing chain (which drives the 4 cams of course, lose one lose them all) coming to a stop half on and half off. If it starts to come off one camshaft gear everything is spinning so fast even at idle the chain would come completely off all the cams if it came off of one. That would be complete and catastrophic as the out of time valves hit the pistons - no half measure and it would not account for the cutting on and off behavior on the way to the dealership. That cutting in and out would have to be fuel or ignition problems. The bike could not run with the cam/timing chain off of a camshaft gear. Please keep us informed and sorry for your bad luck.
Edit: I wonder if it is not something in the alternator gear drive. That would make a bad noise and vibration with the engine running and without the alternator on-line the engine would only run 10 or 15 minutes before it would start cutting on and off before quitting completely after a few moments of that. We did have at least one instance of this happening with ACL's old bike.
In the years associated with this bike and site this is the first instance I can remember of a manufacturing or parts defect in the timing chain or camshafts.
I can't even imagine the timing chain (which drives the 4 cams of course, lose one lose them all) coming to a stop half on and half off. If it starts to come off one camshaft gear everything is spinning so fast even at idle the chain would come completely off all the cams if it came off of one. That would be complete and catastrophic as the out of time valves hit the pistons - no half measure and it would not account for the cutting on and off behavior on the way to the dealership. That cutting in and out would have to be fuel or ignition problems. The bike could not run with the cam/timing chain off of a camshaft gear. Please keep us informed and sorry for your bad luck.
Edit: I wonder if it is not something in the alternator gear drive. That would make a bad noise and vibration with the engine running and without the alternator on-line the engine would only run 10 or 15 minutes before it would start cutting on and off before quitting completely after a few moments of that. We did have at least one instance of this happening with ACL's old bike.
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Re: 2013 ST1300 cam/timing chain
Sounds like possibly some left over manufacturing particle or such sticking up a cam tensioner, allowing chain to go slack momentarily. In the direction of crank rotation, tensioner would be on the slack side of chain so this would allow 1 cam sprocket to jump a tooth maybe 2 and be out of correlation with the crank yet the cam on the tension side of chain would still be timed correctly. I suspect that is what they meant by "half - off" IMHO
Sounds like possibly some left over manufacturing particle or such sticking up a cam tensioner, allowing chain to go slack momentarily. In the direction of crank rotation, tensioner would be on the slack side of chain so this would allow 1 cam sprocket to jump a tooth maybe 2 and be out of correlation with the crank yet the cam on the tension side of chain would still be timed correctly. I suspect that is what they meant by "half - off" IMHO
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Re: 2013 ST1300 cam/timing chain
Maybe so. There is a left and right tensioner.
Maybe so. There is a left and right tensioner.
zooker13
Ken Zook
Re: 2013 ST1300 cam/timing chain
There are two cam chains so one could stop and the other bank keep pulling till the valves hit the pistons and break. That would probably lock the motor.
There are two cam chains so one could stop and the other bank keep pulling till the valves hit the pistons and break. That would probably lock the motor.
BakerBoy
It's all small stuff.
Re: 2013 ST1300 cam/timing chain
fubartes, I sure hope the dealer has better info for you than what you've been told so far! Sounds very suspicious unless the cam chain tensioner was never engaged at the factory (chain was free to hop a tooth).
fubartes, I sure hope the dealer has better info for you than what you've been told so far! Sounds very suspicious unless the cam chain tensioner was never engaged at the factory (chain was free to hop a tooth).
Scooter
This space for rent...
Re: 2013 ST1300 cam/timing chain
Looking here for a picture of the head assembly, it would seem to me that the cam plate would prevent any chain slippage on top and that it could only occur at the drive gear on the crank. I'm now thinking that the chain slipped off the gear in which case you've got bent valves on that side also.
As my old calculus prof would tell us, "Blast, what are the odds?!?"
BB, I don't think the tensioner was bad from the factory, the engine has 3K miles on it already. I could see it going bad though.
Looking here for a picture of the head assembly, it would seem to me that the cam plate would prevent any chain slippage on top and that it could only occur at the drive gear on the crank. I'm now thinking that the chain slipped off the gear in which case you've got bent valves on that side also.
As my old calculus prof would tell us, "Blast, what are the odds?!?"
BakerBoy
It's all small stuff.
Re: 2013 ST1300 cam/timing chain
Certainly possible Scott. (I've pics in that same thread )
If the chain is loose (whether a bad tensioner or a not-engaged tensioner), and there is sudden accel or deccel of the engine, the chain can get pretty whippy--the guide on top of the cams would be easy to bend or flex. Or certainly it could jump teeth at the bottom sprocket. I don't like the thought of either!
Certainly possible Scott. (I've pics in that same thread
) If the chain is loose (whether a bad tensioner or a not-engaged tensioner), and there is sudden accel or deccel of the engine, the chain can get pretty whippy--the guide on top of the cams would be easy to bend or flex. Or certainly it could jump teeth at the bottom sprocket. I don't like the thought of either!Re: 2013 ST1300 cam/timing chain
Okay, so today I talked with the dealer and the Honda Regional Tech had been in to assess the bike. There were some electronics that they had to replace in order to get it started but no explanation was given for those failures. The dealer said that they spent considerable time dismantling the engine and taking pictures. The tech is putting together a report which will be their plan of action, but he said it was an assembly error. Huh? He stated that there were no valves damaged or anything catastrophic. However, they are going to tear the engine down far enough to inspect for chain pieces and put the micrometers to it and measure all tolerances to ensure anything "out of spec" gets fixed or replaced. There was a bunch of techno speak that went over my head but when I get the details of the work I will definitely post here. The owner of the dealership gave me his 2010 Goldwing to use for a while, so it sounds like another week of getting parts in and painstakingly reassembling my bike. I didn't purchase the extended warranty, but they are going to issue one to me at no charge. My fear is that it will never be factory fresh once they are completed and that there may be other problems looming in my future. At this point, I just want my bike back. The Goldwing is nice but it's a tank compared to the ST. Stay tuned and thanks for your comments.
Okay, so today I talked with the dealer and the Honda Regional Tech had been in to assess the bike. There were some electronics that they had to replace in order to get it started but no explanation was given for those failures. The dealer said that they spent considerable time dismantling the engine and taking pictures. The tech is putting together a report which will be their plan of action, but he said it was an assembly error. Huh? He stated that there were no valves damaged or anything catastrophic. However, they are going to tear the engine down far enough to inspect for chain pieces and put the micrometers to it and measure all tolerances to ensure anything "out of spec" gets fixed or replaced. There was a bunch of techno speak that went over my head but when I get the details of the work I will definitely post here. The owner of the dealership gave me his 2010 Goldwing to use for a while, so it sounds like another week of getting parts in and painstakingly reassembling my bike. I didn't purchase the extended warranty, but they are going to issue one to me at no charge. My fear is that it will never be factory fresh once they are completed and that there may be other problems looming in my future. At this point, I just want my bike back. The Goldwing is nice but it's a tank compared to the ST. Stay tuned and thanks for your comments.
Re: 2013 ST1300 cam/timing chain
If they are taking pictures it would be great to have them give you the pics so you could post them here.
I hope that the tech is good so that you can have some confidence down the road. I have not been into the engine of any of my 1300's other than clutch replacement valve check and
TB sync so I'm no help. It is good that they are going to give you a extended warranty so if it is running good when it leaves the shop then you should have the assurance of not being stuck with a non running bike down the road.
There are a lot of good things about the wings but like you say it is not a ST. I'm a ST rider so could not make that switch. I delivered a wing for a friend and after 1500 miles I had enough and was happy to get back on the 13.
NOTE to Wing riders: I'm of the opinion that it is one of the best engineered bikes out there, so don't get me wrong.
If they are taking pictures it would be great to have them give you the pics so you could post them here.
I hope that the tech is good so that you can have some confidence down the road. I have not been into the engine of any of my 1300's other than clutch replacement valve check and
TB sync so I'm no help. It is good that they are going to give you a extended warranty so if it is running good when it leaves the shop then you should have the assurance of not being stuck with a non running bike down the road.
There are a lot of good things about the wings but like you say it is not a ST. I'm a ST rider so could not make that switch. I delivered a wing for a friend and after 1500 miles I had enough and was happy to get back on the 13.
NOTE to Wing riders: I'm of the opinion that it is one of the best engineered bikes out there, so don't get me wrong.
Re: 2013 ST1300 cam/timing chain
Here's one of the close ups that my salesman sent me. See anything that doesn't look right for a bike with less than 3,000 miles?
Here's one of the close ups that my salesman sent me. See anything that doesn't look right for a bike with less than 3,000 miles?
Re: 2013 ST1300 cam/timing chain
Kinda hard to see anything out of place when the bike is apart. I've only had the bike apart to do a valve check/adjustment and of all the checks I've done or been a part of only a couple have needed adjustments. Did the dealership say something looked off?
Kinda hard to see anything out of place when the bike is apart. I've only had the bike apart to do a valve check/adjustment and of all the checks I've done or been a part of only a couple have needed adjustments. Did the dealership say something looked off?
Re: 2013 ST1300 cam/timing chain
Kind of hard to tell, but right where it make a sharp angle over the chain slipper, is there some metal missing from the chain? This looks like an unlikely place for damage...
Kind of hard to tell, but right where it make a sharp angle over the chain slipper, is there some metal missing from the chain? This looks like an unlikely place for damage...
Re: 2013 ST1300 cam/timing chain
The dealer was vague in the details but reassured me that everything would be repaired to spec. I've seen pistons that have been stamped with bits of piston ring fragments. This one looks like something got crunched. I'm going to visit on Tuesday to inspect and take my own pictures.
The dealer was vague in the details but reassured me that everything would be repaired to spec. I've seen pistons that have been stamped with bits of piston ring fragments. This one looks like something got crunched. I'm going to visit on Tuesday to inspect and take my own pictures.
Re: 2013 ST1300 cam/timing chain
Hey Skids, is this any better?
Hey Skids, is this any better?
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Re: 2013 ST1300 cam/timing chain
I can't tell. Anyone else have any assessment of this chain?
I can't tell. Anyone else have any assessment of this chain?