ethanol vs non

Joined
Apr 25, 2007
Messages
4,954
Age
62
Location
New Jersey
Bike
st1300 '04
STOC #
7163
Unfortunately, MTBE is still being used in Arizona gasoline.
Go figure.
mtbe has a few advantages. It's cheaper reduces voc emissions and can be pushed thru existing pipelines without modifying them to handle ethanol. I don't remember if mtbe turning up in ground water had anything to do with using it or just leaky underground tanks.

Since the thread is back from the dead. 10% corn sounds like a suspiciously round negotiated number having more to do with distal phalanges than science lol... as is the more is better 15% that was tossed about.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Mar 11, 2007
Messages
1,494
Location
Texas
Bike
2013 Triumph Trophy
...which is exactly why it's there. Lead is long gone (which I'm okay with) as is MTBE. Ethanol is what's left until someone comes up with something better, but I question whether there's any engineering or environmental reason that makes 10% necessary.

--Mark
Mark, I think ten percent is mandated by the corn farmer lobbyist!
 
Joined
Apr 16, 2010
Messages
1,263
Location
Rochester Mn
Bike
2014 FJR ES 2009 WEE
Mark, I think ten percent is mandated by the corn farmer lobbyist!
That's true...I read somewhere that the government committed to a certain number of million gallons every year....and it raises every year....problem is cars are getting more efficient so less gas overall is being sold....that's why they want the 15%.....not enough sales of E85 to make up the difference....thank ConAgra and others for their efforts.....:(.....ff
 

Norm

Vendor
Joined
Aug 26, 2007
Messages
351
Location
Chilliwack, B.C., Canada
Bike
KLR650
STOC #
8030
Some friends who run very high performance 2-stroke snowmobiles (near 300 hp with turbo) tell me that they test all the fuel they buy. Much of the ethanol regular (which doesn't go into the sleds, obviously) is claimed to be 10% ethanol but often runs over 15%.

One effect, regardless of how it runs in an engine, is that of the effects in storage. We see a lot of problems with blocked/restricted fuel pickup screens and such from alcohol containing gasoline while in storage. FWIW, I recommend that vehicles in over winter storage use no-alcohol premium with a stabilizer such as Sea Foam. The combination seems to avoid most of the issues. It's not unusual for someone to bring an outboard with no-start. Much of the time it's simply a matter of pumping out the fuel, draining the carbs and fresh fuel. There appears to be so much water in the fuel due to the alcohol that the fuel won't ignite.

Anyone else have experience with a larger sample size in this regards?


...which is exactly why it's there. Lead is long gone (which I'm okay with) as is MTBE. Ethanol is what's left until someone comes up with something better, but I question whether there's any engineering or environmental reason that makes 10% necessary.

--Mark
 

Norm

Vendor
Joined
Aug 26, 2007
Messages
351
Location
Chilliwack, B.C., Canada
Bike
KLR650
STOC #
8030
I think that you misspoke regarding the use of EGR's effect in reducing NOx. The inert mass of EGR exhaust gasses adds to the combustion charge without contributing to combustion heat. The increased mass requires more heat in order to reach a critical temperature required to form NOx and so reduces the amount of NOX produced. Mixture adjustment is calculated to take the change into effect but regardless, since the EGR charge does not pass through the carburetor or MAF, the amount of EGR volume has an insignificant effect on mixture so its effect is not to displace oxygen or air.

We used to notice the effect of detonation (pinging) as a common side effect when people disabled EGR, back in the days, so it does have an effect in reducing detonation. Whether this is because the mass moderates temperature rise or because it slows combustion is above my pay grade but imagine that someone may know.

I'm also curious as to whether EGR might delay the start of ignition. We used to recurve the ignition advance but had not way to determine whether the timing was (apparently) retarded intentionally completely by delaying spark or in part by the effects of EGR. Interesting but that advancing the spark timing increased power doesn't speak to that...another unknown unless someone can help.

EGR was put in place long before lead went away to cut back on NOx emissions. The combustion process is cooler when there's exhaust gas in the chamber because it's inert filler that displaces oxygen that would otherwise be used in burning the fuel. What I'm not sure about is whether that has any effect on the fuel's resistance to starting the process in the first place. I'd be leaning toward not since they'd have used a higher percentage of exhaust gas to cut back on the lead requirements if it did.

--Mark
 
Last edited:

ReSTored

Site Supporter
Joined
Nov 6, 2005
Messages
1,472
Location
Mississauga, Ontario
Bike
2019 Tracer GT
STOC #
4463
I make a point of running the tank down to almost empty and then filling up with no ethanol premium prior to storage + I use a stabilizer . I also try to buy premium for all the small engine things I have as the gas tend to sit for a while before being used up. Cheap insurance.
 
Top Bottom