Replacement for Honda ST1300 in 2015?

Joined
May 4, 2006
Messages
71
Location
Ukiah, California
Bike
2014 Yamaha FJR1300A
At a semi-private motorcycle-related meeting last year, some upper-level Honda management were in attendance. When asked about a replacement for the ST1300, they replied that the current market for sport-touring bikes was even worse. They suggested not to expect anything new, anytime soon.
Motorcycle manufacturers can create (or invigorate) market segments based on an appropriate dedication of resources. The ST Series (Honda), FJR Series (Yamaha) and Concours Series (Kawasaki) exist because of this dedication. Maybe Honda sees the ST market as flat because they are allowing it to be so. Yamaha and Kawasaki obviously see their models as flagships, treat them accordingly and invest in upgrades. Honda, for some reason is marching to a different drum and has chosen to walk away from the realm. Sad, since the ST platform is a perfect canvas (IMO) to evolve to the state of the art by a wave of the modern electronics wand + a few chassis improvements.

To me, Japanese motorcycle manufacturers have always been tough to figure out. After following Honda during the amazing International Grand Prix run during the 1960s I fully expected Honda to come out with a DOHC, 4-valve world killing four cylinder motorcycle that emulated the fabulous competition engines of the era. Not to be, the CB750 was introduced as a SOHC 2-valve of somewhat odd design. Nice motorcycle, owned two of them but I was always hoping for a leap of technology that Honda had so effectively demonstrated on the track. Not to be.

Yamaha stepped out in front in the late 70s with their XS750 (which moved to the XS850) and XS1100 lines. Crude by modern standards, they had features nobody else had at the time (cast aluminum wheels, triple disk brakes, shaft drive, solid low maintenance drive trains, good looks, etc.). They were well received and Yamaha made a name for itself. The XS1100 line evolved to the FJ line and eventually to the FJR line, a pretty good lineage.

Honda could do the same if it chose to. They are big enough to dictate the market rather than have the market dictate to them (which is what it seems like they are doing).

Dan
 

JQL

Growing old disgracefully :)
Joined
Feb 19, 2012
Messages
207
Location
Essonne, France
Bike
NT700VA
If you go the the Honda Motorcycle site you can see their current lineup and it also gives you an insight into their thinking.

The sad thing is there isn't a decent tourer (sauf Goldwing).

There seems to be this "Crossover" and semi Scooter style design pervading the range. Probably sells well in the big Asian and 3rd World markets.

They also seem to be designing an engine and/or frame then creating a range of bikes around it. Rather like they did in the 70s. This should make the bikes cheaper in the long run (or more profit for Honda-san).
 

SupraSabre

48 Years of SoCal Lane Splitting/Commuting-Retired
Site Supporter
Joined
Nov 20, 2005
Messages
9,498
Location
Cedar City, Utah
Bike
12/04 ST 1300s
2024 Miles
000145
STOC #
5901
Back in '86, Honda dropped the VF700(V45) Sabre, the V65 Sabre and the 650 Nighthawk. I was very disappointed to see them do that. I had a 650 Nighthawk at the time and a year later I crashed it and then bought a used (should have bought new) '85 VF700 Sabre. After putting over 74K miles on it, I sold it and a few years later bought an '83 V45 Sabre. Sold that and a year later bought a '85 V45 Sabre. Four years later, I bought a V65 Sabre. Why? because I liked the Sabres after adding full fairings on them. (got rid of the '83 because I couldn't find a full fairing for it - before I got on the internet)

When I bought my first ST1300, I figured I wouldn't have to worry about buying another one. Little did I know I would have to commute 125 miles a day back then! Commuting on a bike (even in a cage) is hard on them. My '05 was proof of that.

I just don't care what Honda, Yamaha, Suzuki, Kawasaki, Harley or anyone else does at this point. I don't have to have the newest and latest of anything, so I will just enjoy my three year old, brand new 2012 ST1300 (when I go to pick it up next month) and not worry about what they are going to bring out next year or any year after that! :D
 
Joined
Mar 11, 2007
Messages
1,494
Location
Texas
Bike
2013 Triumph Trophy
Motorcycle manufacturers can create (or invigorate) market segments based on an appropriate dedication of resources. The ST Series (Honda), FJR Series (Yamaha) and Concours Series (Kawasaki) exist because of this dedication. Maybe Honda sees the ST market as flat because they are allowing it to be so. Yamaha and Kawasaki obviously see their models as flagships, treat them accordingly and invest in upgrades. Honda, for some reason is marching to a different drum and has chosen to walk away from the realm. Sad, since the ST platform is a perfect canvas (IMO) to evolve to the state of the art by a wave of the modern electronics wand + a few chassis improvements.

To me, Japanese motorcycle manufacturers have always been tough to figure out. After following Honda during the amazing International Grand Prix run during the 1960s I fully expected Honda to come out with a DOHC, 4-valve world killing four cylinder motorcycle that emulated the fabulous competition engines of the era. Not to be, the CB750 was introduced as a SOHC 2-valve of somewhat odd design. Nice motorcycle, owned two of them but I was always hoping for a leap of technology that Honda had so effectively demonstrated on the track. Not to be.

Yamaha stepped out in front in the late 70s with their XS750 (which moved to the XS850) and XS1100 lines. Crude by modern standards, they had features nobody else had at the time (cast aluminum wheels, triple disk brakes, shaft drive, solid low maintenance drive trains, good looks, etc.). They were well received and Yamaha made a name for itself. The XS1100 line evolved to the FJ line and eventually to the FJR line, a pretty good lineage.

Honda could do the same if it chose to. They are big enough to dictate the market rather than have the market dictate to them (which is what it seems like they are doing).

Dan
My thoughts exactly. They invested in the DN-01 and NM-4 because the odd design category is hot right now?
 

TPadden

Tom Padden
Joined
Apr 25, 2006
Messages
3,779
Age
73
Location
Brooksville, FL
.......They are big enough to dictate the market rather than have the market dictate to them (which is what it seems like they are doing).


Dan

They invested in the DN-01 and NM-4 because the odd design category is hot right now?
They aren't a monopoly: Honda can't really dictate the market. More likely Honda is looking for the hot market which their experience also tells them what is not hot enough (they still have new 3-5 year old ST's advertised for sale). :)

http://powersports.honda.com/2012/st1300.aspx
 
Last edited:

SupraSabre

48 Years of SoCal Lane Splitting/Commuting-Retired
Site Supporter
Joined
Nov 20, 2005
Messages
9,498
Location
Cedar City, Utah
Bike
12/04 ST 1300s
2024 Miles
000145
STOC #
5901
They aren't a monopoly: Honda can't really dictate the market. More likely Honda is looking for the hot market which their experience also tells them what is not hot enough (they still have new 3-5 year old ST's advertised for sale). :)

http://powersports.honda.com/2012/st1300.aspx
Is that how they came up with that CTX1300? I don't see them rushing off the floors!
 
Joined
Mar 11, 2007
Messages
1,494
Location
Texas
Bike
2013 Triumph Trophy
Is that how they came up with that CTX1300? I don't see them rushing off the floors!
I don't pay much attention to the CTX1300, but I read the other day that its a one year model?

on edit: Looks like it was only available as a 2014 model so it must have been a big seller too. I see they are offering $3000 in bonus bucks if you buy the CTX1300, whatever they are.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Mar 11, 2007
Messages
1,494
Location
Texas
Bike
2013 Triumph Trophy
They aren't a monopoly: Honda can't really dictate the market. More likely Honda is looking for the hot market which their experience also tells them what is not hot enough (they still have new 3-5 year old ST's advertised for sale). :)

http://powersports.honda.com/2012/st1300.aspx
They have the 3-5 year old bikes left over because they didn't update them in 2010 like they should have, not because sport touring bikes don't sell. Kawasaki, BMW, Triumph, and Yamaha all SELL new or revised sport touring bikes with features people want. People don't want a stripped down sport touring bike for 18 grand!
 

SupraSabre

48 Years of SoCal Lane Splitting/Commuting-Retired
Site Supporter
Joined
Nov 20, 2005
Messages
9,498
Location
Cedar City, Utah
Bike
12/04 ST 1300s
2024 Miles
000145
STOC #
5901
They have the 3-5 year old bikes left over because they didn't update them in 2010 like they should have, not because sport touring bikes don't sell. Kawasaki, BMW, Triumph, and Yamaha all SELL new or revised sport touring bikes with features people want. People don't want a stripped down sport touring bike for 18 grand!
No, but I don't mind $12Grand...plus I get to swap most of my FARKLEs over from my 2010! ;)
 

TPadden

Tom Padden
Joined
Apr 25, 2006
Messages
3,779
Age
73
Location
Brooksville, FL
They have the 3-5 year old bikes left over because they didn't update them in 2010 like they should have, not because sport touring bikes don't sell.
Don't agree because I bought a 2 year old brand NEW ST, heavily discounted, from a dealer in 2008; even in 2006 they didn't come close to selling their inventory. Lets face it; Honda's record isn't so good selling their sport touring bikes. Even with updates, many around here wouldn't buy a new Honda ST even if their's died; they'd revive it or buy a used replacement. :D.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Mar 11, 2007
Messages
1,494
Location
Texas
Bike
2013 Triumph Trophy
Don't agree because I bought a 2 year old brand NEW ST, heavily discounted, from a dealer in 2008; even in 2006 they didn't come close to selling their inventory. Lets face it; Honda's record isn't so good selling their sport touring bikes. Even with updates, many around here wouldn't buy a new Honda ST even if their's died; they'd revive it or buy a used replacement. :D.
This is a fairly frugal bunch, but I have to wonder how the other manufacturers didn't end up with a bunch of leftover bikes like Honda did. The only difference I see is they updated their bikes while Honda didn't. Even as far back as 2008 Kawasaki updated the Connie.

There are a lot of people riding different bikes on the forum now, wouldn't most of them have bought an updated ST?
 

Mellow

Joe
Admin
Joined
Dec 1, 2004
Messages
18,826
Age
59
Bike
'21 BMW R1250RT
2024 Miles
000540
There are a lot of people riding different bikes on the forum now, wouldn't most of them have bought an updated ST?
I would have in a second depending on the updates.. If they came close to the FJR w/features I'd still go with the Honda even if it was a tad more $$..
 

TPadden

Tom Padden
Joined
Apr 25, 2006
Messages
3,779
Age
73
Location
Brooksville, FL
I would have in a second depending on the updates.. If they came close to the FJR w/features I'd still go with the Honda even if it was a tad more $$..
Mellow

You really don't have much credibility ..... from your history it wouldn't matter what features it had; as soon as you had it farkled, you'd abandon it like a New Orleans beauty with 5 o'clock shadow ......:D

Tom
 

Mellow

Joe
Admin
Joined
Dec 1, 2004
Messages
18,826
Age
59
Bike
'21 BMW R1250RT
2024 Miles
000540
Mellow

You really don't have much credibility ..... from your history it wouldn't matter what features it had; as soon as you had it farkled, you'd abandon it like a New Orleans beauty with 5 o'clock shadow ......:D

Tom
Yeah, but at least I have some credibility.
 

Fatjock

STOC #8872
Joined
Apr 4, 2015
Messages
262
Location
Tampa Bay Area
Bike
'18 Glowing Tour DCT
STOC #
8872
................................ Even as far back as 2008 Kawasaki updated the Connie..............................
Which had been on the market since 1986, so updated a mere 20 years later.

And the ST1300 was how long in the tooth, 10 years? Having replaced the ST1100 which was 13 years into it's run at the time.
Yeah they updated when Honda didn't, and Honda updated when they didn't.


A lot of other manufacturers did have a bunch of leftover bikes. Which is why discounted St13's are still not competitive, because they're up against discounted Connie's and FJR's that were cheaper to begin with!
I've seen new "old stock" Connie 14's advertised four four figure prices, looks attractive against a $12K ST.
 
Joined
Mar 29, 2010
Messages
66
Location
Cheyenne, WY
Bike
'05 ST1300 "STinger"
Motorcycle manufacturers can create (or invigorate) market segments based on an appropriate dedication of resources. The ST Series (Honda), FJR Series (Yamaha) and Concours Series (Kawasaki) exist because of this dedication. Maybe Honda sees the ST market as flat because they are allowing it to be so. Yamaha and Kawasaki obviously see their models as flagships, treat them accordingly and invest in upgrades. Honda, for some reason is marching to a different drum and has chosen to walk away from the realm.
My feeling has been that Honda has been charging BMW prices without the features. Yamaha, Kawasaki and BMW keep updating their ST bikes but Honda has let the ST1300 stagnate and die while raising the price every year.
 

Bug Dr.

Extroverted Loner
Joined
Jun 12, 2008
Messages
2,182
Location
Arkansas
No need to worry about the future of the ST in North America. I was in my local Honda dealership (it's a big one) today talking to my salesman. He mentioned that big dogs from Honda North America and some from Japan would be visiting this dealership on Thursday or Friday of this week. I asked him to please tell the suits that several are asking for an updated ST from Honda that would compare to the new RT or FJR. He said he would pass that request along to the important people that will be visiting later in the week.

So, no need to worry.......everything will be taken care of and a new ST will be on the horizon shortly..........you can thank me later.

Sweet dreams,
Mike
 

SupraSabre

48 Years of SoCal Lane Splitting/Commuting-Retired
Site Supporter
Joined
Nov 20, 2005
Messages
9,498
Location
Cedar City, Utah
Bike
12/04 ST 1300s
2024 Miles
000145
STOC #
5901
No need to worry about the future of the ST in North America. I was in my local Honda dealership (it's a big one) today talking to my salesman. He mentioned that big dogs from Honda North America and some from Japan would be visiting this dealership on Thursday or Friday of this week. I asked him to please tell the suits that several are asking for an updated ST from Honda that would compare to the new RT or FJR. He said he would pass that request along to the important people that will be visiting later in the week.

So, no need to worry.......everything will be taken care of and a new ST will be on the horizon shortly..........you can thank me later.

Sweet dreams,
Mike
Geez, what are you trying to do, devalue my 2012 ST1300 before I get a chance to pick it up! :eek:4:
 
Top Bottom