+1
The Bike to Bike Comm system does an enormous amount of good for things like that. Of course, if one rider likes to listen to his radio the whole time...
jonjonboo went down yesterday--rearended by HD ridin brother
- Thread starter jonjonboo
- Start date
The Bike to Bike Comm system does an enormous amount of good for things like that. Of course, if one rider likes to listen to his radio the whole time...
I need someone to explain how a MSF class makes a NEW rider a better rider ? I have seen several students who participated in the MSF program that once on the street still could not ride
If a new rider is capable of learning (don't laugh) they get the basics of bike control, safety, things to look for (in driving situations and safety inspections of their bike) various exercises (parking lot maneuvers) panic and stop situations.....general awareness of stuff that can and will happen....and think about the reactions and skills required for that.....even if you grew up riding dirtbikes and think you can handle a bike the situational awareness things are what keep you alive.....the courses are a START in that direction.....the learning process is lifelong....but they give you the basic tools to continue that process......and yeah, some people don't learn anything at all from any kind of class.....hence the phrase "you can't fix stupid"..........2 cents worth......................ff
OP
OP
you are preaching to the quire--- I have a J&M CB for this reason, been trying to get my brother to let me hook one up on his bike. The J&M CB also works as a power amp with volume control for an iphone, MP3 player etc. You can set the CB so that another CB will stop the music momentarily to listen to CB com. Anyone that has never used this setup can not appreciate how great they are. I have tried numerous time to get pants to install this CB on his bike so Mike and I can comm with him, (there have been some moments when----) If my brother would have had comm with me this idiocy would have never happened.
My kid rear-ended me last summer, I was on my bike and he was in a Miata. He was a new driver, and Miatas are pretty slow anyway, so he struggled to keep up. Until he caught up to me at great speed at a stop sign. I made him drive well outside his skill level with an unfamiliar stick shift car. As the more experienced person and leader of that ride I take responsibility for that.
thumperjdm
Naty Von Ozirisz 1997-2011
For one thing, MSF will teach proper braking procedures. In this case, we were told the rider locked his rear wheel. He definitely needs classroom instruction, and then in-the-saddle training on proper braking.
New riders are (and should be!) timid. But, at least if they have proper training under their belt, they're that much more prepared for their mistakes, and hazards on the road. I received my m/c license almost thirty years ago, by riding some circles in a DMV parking lot. I know that I'm very fortunate to have survived my early years of riding.
WOW, I'm riding my brother's bike now. I'm using it to see how I like the R1200GSA. Due to distance between us, we don't ride together that often, but when we do, it's good. Have each other's six when we ride. Glad you and your brother are ok. Mine taught the safety course while in the Marines, so other than being a Jarhead, I trust him.
MSF course 5 hours of classroom time 10 hours of course time on 250cc does not give someone proper riding skills I see it all the time MSF heards cattle its all about MONEY
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I guess I could repost what I wrote above.....but.......it gives people the TOOLS.......they must care enough or be bright enough to use them....if they don't wanna do parking lot maneuvers and practice panic stops and road debris avoidance maneuvers there's not much WE can do about that....in this case blame the pupil, not the teacher......................ff
That's why we need a tiered motorcycle license with more hours of behind the handle bar time
I don't necessarily disagree with that, but what arm of the government is going to be responsible for that and how much will it cost? Sticking someone with a $2000 bill to get a license kinda sticks in my craw..........it's the new rider's RESPONSIBILITY to practice what they learn and not just throw a leg over their new scoot and head for the bar where all the shiny chrome is parked.....ff
The MSF student handbook all the participants get in the class clearly state that this course is a good beginning. Nobody who teaches it thinks that it is a complete training.
Page ii says the course "covers the basic fundamentals for you to develop your capabilities to become a safe and responsible motorcyclist."
Page 2 has many statements that say it is a start.
Page 47 states that this has been an "introduction".
It is a start and the one I wish I had gotten 47 years ago.
Page ii says the course "covers the basic fundamentals for you to develop your capabilities to become a safe and responsible motorcyclist."
Page 2 has many statements that say it is a start.
Page 47 states that this has been an "introduction".
It is a start and the one I wish I had gotten 47 years ago.
OP
OP
In November 1981 in Orange county California, Marine Corp Air Station El Toro--- I was forced against my will to take a 2 week motorcycle safety course (who could teach a 21 year old stud that had been ridin forever anything he didn't already know?) I will say I learned way more than I thought possible, been an advocate for it ever since. At the time I had a brand spankin new 1982 Honda CB900C, you had to take the course on your bike, no exceptions.
drrod
Site Supporter
Just curious. Is there any evidence (that is not published by vested interest group) that there are less accidents in jurisdictions that have a tiered licensing system? I am not sure there is. On the surface it seems like a logical system but is there any REAL UNBIASED evidence that it works?
OP
OP
I see what you are getting at here--and I don't care. I do know for a fact that my safety course saved my life many times over, how can I prove that ? I can't, but it is something I know for a fact and that's good enough.
drrod
Site Supporter
Jon,
If you read my post again, you will see that I am asking about the tiered licensing system not the value of the MSF course. I dont think anyone would question the value of instruction.
Sorry if I wasn't clear.
Rod
If you read my post again, you will see that I am asking about the tiered licensing system not the value of the MSF course. I dont think anyone would question the value of instruction.
Sorry if I wasn't clear.
Rod
I know riders that have ridden for 30 years straight and hundreds of thousands of miles that aren't much better than beginners. Testing and test results are more important than hours IMHO.
I think taking the MSF course is better than not taking it. The MSF instructors I have known do a pretty good job.
Glad you two are OK JonJon.
Why not have your brother make a claim with his insurance? It should cover both bikes if he has full coverage.
I disagree MSF is all about money with very little training in the program -- When riding a motorcycle everything on the road wants to KILL YOU
Based on what I have read in this thread, I would bet that little bro may pick up something that would stick in his head, but I dare to guess any type of post-class parking lot practice would be non-existent. Curious - does he wear a helmet (maybe mandatory where you are?)? How old is he? Buying a big rig HD for a first bike sounds all about "the cool" and nothing about "the ride" to me. Hence, no interest in bettering your chances at accident avoidance and improving your overall riding skills.
I wish there were some courses within reasonable distance from me (like the Lee Parks courses, etc.). I'd be on them in a short minute. I just can't afford the time for a two day ride each way to take a 2 or 3-day class. They run courses in Denver - that's about a 10 hr ride to the north end from Idaho Falls.
Still waiting for first ride of season. Have had a few good days, but work schedule hasn't allowed in. Hoping soon...
I wish there were some courses within reasonable distance from me (like the Lee Parks courses, etc.). I'd be on them in a short minute. I just can't afford the time for a two day ride each way to take a 2 or 3-day class. They run courses in Denver - that's about a 10 hr ride to the north end from Idaho Falls.
Still waiting for first ride of season. Have had a few good days, but work schedule hasn't allowed in. Hoping soon...
Paying for your own damages is a nice gesture and softens the hit to your brother's pride from running into you. At the end of the day family still comes first. It might be a good time to mention the JMCB or something similar; he may be more receptive now.
When riding a stagger, if the rider in front changes his position in the lane I change mine so I always have clear pavement in front of me.
When riding a stagger, if the rider in front changes his position in the lane I change mine so I always have clear pavement in front of me.