fork cap will not budge

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I suppose that shock fluid is not going to force itself up and into the threads any more than the penetrating oil will from the outside ( by the way I used a "tye wrap" around the tube to create a "dam" the cap always had p.oil up against the seam between the cap and tube).I could be wrong-have been, before. The manager of the service bay did point out that, to him, the cap appeared to be a bit crossed threaded. He pointed it out to me.....for the record I didn't see it....I had already considered that and couldn't see an appreciable difference between the two forks but without actually seeing the threads it's all guesswork.
 
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Maybe I should clarify something that has been a bit of a "stumbling block" for me.. Most likely not for others...I've always looked at the motorcycle from the riders point of view.seems totally reasonable in my book. In my clymer's it appears that I was wrong, and the proper prospective is from a spectator, looking at the bike from head on . With that in mind it,s the right cap. The one with the anti dive thingamajig.
 
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The manager of the service bay did point out that, to him, the cap appeared to be a bit crossed threaded. He pointed it out to me.....for the record I didn't see it....I had already considered that and couldn't see an appreciable difference between the two forks but without actually seeing the threads it's all guesswork.
The cap should fit flush with the end of the chrome tube. If its cross threaded then one side should show a small gap between the cap and the tube, and it should be clearly visible.
 
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Maybe I should clarify something that has been a bit of a "stumbling block" for me.. Most likely not for others...I've always looked at the motorcycle from the riders point of view.seems totally reasonable in my book. In my clymer's it appears that I was wrong, and the proper prospective is from a spectator, looking at the bike from head on . With that in mind it,s the right cap. The one with the anti dive thingamajig.
No . . no . . . no . . You were right with your original thinking. I don't have a Clymer manual to read it, but that manual has been wrong on other things and if you've read it correctly, then that is a major goof. Sitting on the bike, the right fork has the damping rod inside and the left fork does not, but it does have the anti dive unit.
 

ST1100Y

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I've always looked at the motorcycle from the riders point of view. seems totally reasonable in my book.
As its standard on any automotive, marine vessel, air- & space-crafts... supported by all practice and indicators/marks in OEM Honda manuals, their parts fiche, etc...
 

ST Gui

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I've always looked at the motorcycle from the riders point of view.seems totally reasonable in my book. In my clymer's it appears that I was wrong, and the proper prospective is from a spectator, looking at the bike from head on
I don't know what's "proper". All references that I have ever heard or read have been from the rider's perspective.

Not that there's any wrong or right just so long as a reference it given somewhere. If Clymer's chooses to use head-on that's fine as long as they tell you. Or use port and starboard. LOL
 
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to get my caps off i used a hex bit socket and the longest bar i could. If you don't have a breakers bar use a long metal tube over the handle of the wrench. longer the bar the less effort needed.
 
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irish...you kidding right? if I could see the threads I would of had the cap, at least, partially out( and I would be thrilled that I got it that far out). BTW- a healthy distrust is a good thing(at least in my book). both tubes, the caps are sitting level on their respective tubes. the good one looks to be screwed down and sitting on the tube. uniform around the perimeter, and the flange in close contact with it's tube. the offending tube it's cap is also level. and screwed down "almost" to the point of the flange in close contact. I think i can see a very small gap between the cap&tube. but, I'm unable to measure it with my caliper and when back lit by a strong light, I can't see any light between the flange and tube top.( this applies to all 360degrees around the tube/cap). if chemical thread locker had been used, I would of thought that the repeated heating and cooling cycles would of addressed that, a longer bar? I have used a 1meter pipe and the results were mentioned in post #17 . I had thrown my hands up, and as a very last thing was the Honda dealer. at this point, I'm satisfied that I've exhausted all reasonable attempts to get this cap moving. if the cap is crossed threaded, the guy that did it is very, very good at it!......btw, john, the bike is a 1998
 
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propane hand held torch, heated all around heat directed towards the internal threaded area of the tube- stopped short of seeing any smoke, but way too hot to grasp with bare hand. did squirt it during the process. and did this about 5 times! checked the roundness with electronic calipers- ok on that element. the offending tube is the "left", this as seen from the perspective of a seated rider.it contains the anti-diver stuff. sorry about this mix up I have been using a Clymers manual and it calls that tube the "right". force of habit had me calling it the right, up until post #23. no dings in the area, except for what I have impaired- nothing so serious as to impede removal-imho. this is the first time I've heard of the "bottom bolt" are you saying that the fork dampner allen bolt that is inserted into the very bottom of the left fork has to be removed ( or just loosened) before the top cap can be unscrewed?
 

John OoSTerhuis

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1998 standard, non-ABS, at 76.5K and unknown last R&R of the left fork cap (and suspension fluid change), Mark. Who knows what the fluid in there, if any, looks like.

Waldo, the bottom fork tube bolt has nothing to do with your current dilemma.

As I mentioned earlier, the left cap is susceptible to cross threading. That's my guess as to the cause now that we've determined which fork we're actually talking about.

John
 
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irish...you kidding right? if I could see the threads I would of had the cap, at least, partially out( and I would be thrilled that I got it that far out). BTW- a healthy distrust is a good thing(at least in my book). both tubes, the caps are sitting level on their respective tubes. the good one looks to be screwed down and sitting on the tube. uniform around the perimeter, and the flange in close contact with it's tube. the offending tube it's cap is also level. and screwed down "almost" to the point of the flange in close contact. I think i can see a very small gap between the cap&tube. but, I'm unable to measure it with my caliper and when back lit by a strong light, I can't see any light between the flange and tube top.( this applies to all 360degrees around the tube/cap). if chemical thread locker had been used, I would of thought that the repeated heating and cooling cycles would of addressed that, a longer bar? I have used a 1meter pipe and the results were mentioned in post #17 . I had thrown my hands up, and as a very last thing was the Honda dealer. at this point, I'm satisfied that I've exhausted all reasonable attempts to get this cap moving. if the cap is crossed threaded, the guy that did it is very, very good at it!......btw, john, the bike is a 1998
Not sure bout' the 'very good at it part', but if they had previously been removed using an air-gun, then may be possible it were 'thought' the cap was hand started correctly on threads then hit it with the air-gun:eek:, pulling it down that far before the thread-sieze scenario. Whatever the cause, still irritating that someone prior got a bit ham-fisted:rolleyes:.
 

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...possible it were 'thought' the cap was hand started correctly on threads then hit it with the air-gun :eek:...
Darn, ham-fisted gorilla-mechs... :(
Cause if that's true, you might need a new fork tube + cap... $$$ :mad:
 

John OoSTerhuis

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The ST1100 fork caps have very fine threads. The one with the damper rod attached to the underside of the cap is quite easy to engage the threads of the fork tube without cross threading -- just pull the fork tube up and screw it onto the cap which is sitting on top of the damper rod. The fork with the anti-dive unit (left/non-ABS) however must be engaged by hand while compressing the fork spring.

Tip: [thanks Alan Hunt!] before inserting the spring, find the point at which the cap just begins to engage the threads, then back it off ~1/8" and mark the fork tube and cap with a Sharpie. Install the spring, match the marks up and screw in the cap.

Also, I have a custom 17mm hex-bit 3/8" drive socket that helps a lot. I cut a chunk off a 17mm Allen key and epoxied it in a 6 pt socket. The tip is ground so it doesn't bottom out in the cap recess. That way only the socket's lip contacts the surface of the cap, greatly assisting in stability and control to keep the cap level when rotating the cap to engage the threads, while pressing down with the rachet. To help even more, I use a palm rachet instead of one with a handle. This 3/8" drive socket works directly with the torque wrenches normally used for the fork caps' torque value, no adapter needed. Most 17mm hex-bit sockets are 1/2" drive, big, bulky, and the tip rocks around in the fork caps' recess. I put one of my custom-made sockets in the STOC Fork Seals R&R Tool Kit.

John

via iPhone 4S
 
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Tip: [thanks Alan Hunt!] before inserting the spring, find the point at which the cap just begins to engage the threads, then back it off ~1/8" and mark the fork tube and cap with a Sharpie. Install the spring, match the marks up and screw in the cap.
Another method I've found useful is to turn the cap counter-clockwise 180 degrees or so before doing the final clockwise twist to get it started. You'll usually feel a click of some sort as the threads align when turning it counter-clockwise, then reverse to clockwise and apply some pressure to the spring.
 
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Just thinking, I haven't actually done this, but since you have tried heating the tube assembly without success do the opposite.

Freeze the entire assembly (chest type freezer) for a couple of days - get the entire piece down to 0F before proceeding. Take it out, clamp it back on the bike, them heat the outside end of the tube and crank away on the socket/wrench. The tube should expand more than just heating from room temperature and the thermal shock may just break it free. While re-installing in the clamps, keep the end of the tube wrapped in a baggie of ice to maintain the unit as cold as possible for as long as possible.

John, If you know this won't work please sound off. Thanks. See you at Pardeeville.

Good Luck.

Jim
 
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thank you guys, I guess that Xthreaded can be the only reasonable explanation. and thanks for the tip about indexing the start point... that lil bit of useful information will be used when I start up again.
 

John OoSTerhuis

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Worth a try, Jim.

See you at Pardeeville. Unless the jury summons I JUST got is for a two month long murder trial or something... :grin:
 

ST Gui

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I guess that Xthreaded can be the only reasonable explanation.
Sure seems like it. Somebody must have really worked to get the cap seated so that it looks proper.

Was the service manager not aggressive enough? Was he afraid to damage the tube and get blamed? Did he give up in the hopes of selling you a new tube?

Is the cap still in good shape? I'd be tempted to find someone with an impact gun and try myself. Failing that it would be a good hex/socket combo as John mentioned and a monster breaker bar.

The final question is: will the tube still be serviceable once you get the cap off? At least you'll have access to the parts inside. Could the tube's threads be recut? Would it be better to have the cap machined out to preserve the tube? Buy a new tube and cut the old one open?
 
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The final question is: will the tube still be serviceable once you get the cap off? At least you'll have access to the parts inside. Could the tube's threads be recut? Would it be better to have the cap machined out to preserve the tube? Buy a new tube and cut the old one open?
The tube is steel, and I think the cap is aluminum, so my guess would be the tube threads would survive and the cap threads are going to lose.
 
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