Possible u-joint problem

Hi,

I've been a member, mostly lurker, for a while but haven't been here in years. I still have an ST that I bought in 06, even though others have come and gone, because I love the bike.

I've got a problem you guys have seen before and I'm looking for advice. My bike has about 61000 miles and last year around August I limped it home from work. The problem; when I would decelerate, usually for a stop sign, I kept hearing some banging from what I thought was the rear. I even stopped on the side of the road to see if something was loose with the rear brake. Didn't find anything. One last data point, it was a really hot day.

When I got home after thinking about it and doing a little research, I thought it might be the u-joint, even though that seemed like pretty low miles for a problem with a Honda. For confirmation, I put it on the centerstand and tried spinning the wheel. I expected to hear some noise or have excessive slop, but didn't find any.

Well, I had bought a new bike a couple of months before, so the Honda went on the back burner. I must admit, I was two-timing the big girl. Fast forward to now. I've had the ST out several times for rides up to 40 miles and haven't heard a thing. I planned on having a local guy I trust replace the u-joint, but before I took it to him I wanted to make sure that was the problem.

So my questions for you guys that have had the problem or have read a lot more about it than me are:
Is a banging noise upon deceleration consistent with a failing u-joint?
Would the colder weather have anything to do with not having the symptoms now? Originally, I thought cold grease wouldn't let it flop so much, but in all reality there's probably very little grease there anyway.
Any other problem that would have caused the noise then?
Unless I hear different, I'm still leaning toward a bad u-joint but sure would like to hear theories about why it's not making noise now.

Thanks in advance for ideas.

Steve

Sounds more like a wheel bearing to me.. I would pull the rear wheel and inspect those... then, turn the splines on the hub by hand and see if you feel any uneven resistance in doing that. If the splines on the hub have that then it may be the u-joint. Mine went at 50k miles.. some have 100k on their bikes and original u-joint.. just the luck of the draw in that respect.

Bearings are good. Check them on every tire change and I had one not too long before that with new bearings installed. In fact, wheel bearings seem to be a wear item on the big girl. I've replaced them more than once.

I'll try pulling the wheel and testing as you described.

I wouldn't think temperature would make much if any difference in the behavior of the u-joint. If it was worn out it will stay worn out. When you spin your wheel, did you remove the rear brake pads or at least separate them so that they aren't rubbing at all? You will want a quiet environment when trying to listen to the joint turning. From the reports of people who have had to replace the joint, most if not all of them reported a vibration while riding, especially when in the 80mph area. Refer to this thread if you haven't already (note that there is some thread derailment in there but it sure brings back some fond memories of friends long gone...)

Thanks for the suggestions. I haven't noticed any vibration, but haven't been at interstate speeds either.

It's a little too cold to work in the garage the next couple of days, but I'll post if I find anything when I get out there. I think I'll pick up a 1 1/4" socket to butcher in case it comes to that.

The often replaced wheel bearings would be a FLAG! did you replace wheel or flange/driven bearings?
I have not seen many wheel bearing failures, but have seen alot of driven bearing failures.
Who installed your bearings and do you trust them....02
As stated remove rear pads to get a better idea of source of noise.

I sold my ST a couple years ago. But I have a spare U-joint that I bought off Ebay from a totaled bike out in the garage. If your interested in it let me know.

Igofar said:

The often replaced wheel bearings would be a FLAG! did you replace wheel or flange/driven bearings?
I have not seen many wheel bearing failures, but have seen alot of driven bearing failures.
Who installed your bearings and do you trust them....02

Click to expand...

I don't remember which bearing(s) were replaced last time. I don't think I've ever replaced all of them at one time. I check them every time I change tires and because I used to travel a lot on the bike, I replace any that are marginal. In 60,000 miles, I've gone through several tires. I look at the bearings as a wear item, it's a fairly heavy bike and relatively small bearings. My old Concours was about the same.

I trust the guy that does my tires and bearings very much with installation. He worked at a Honda dealer for 10-15 years and has had his own shop for probably close to 20 now. He stays very busy and often runs out of room in the summer, so I take the wheels off in my garage and run them out to him so I usually know if I'm going to replace any bearings. I'll ask his opinion if one is questionable.

Landon,

I may be interested in your spare u-joint. I'll try to send you an email with specifics. Have they improved them with subsequent years or is a new one exactly the same as my 20004? I updated my profile with my current email address.

It's supposed to be warmer tomorrow and I'm off so I plan on pulling the wheel and see if I can feel anything weird.

Post#30 has a video w/sound and some particulars as to how mine was reacting. Hope it helps.

https://www.st-owners.com/forums/showthread.php?94962-U-Joint-Pre-Failure-Indicator

SSFox said:

Landon,

I may be interested in your spare u-joint. I'll try to send you an email with specifics. Have they improved them with subsequent years or is a new one exactly the same as my 20004? I updated my profile with my current email address.

It's supposed to be warmer tomorrow and I'm off so I plan on pulling the wheel and see if I can feel anything weird.

Click to expand...

As far as I know nothing has changed with the U joint over the years. I imagine a new 2014 has the same part # for the U joint as your 2004 (or any other model year of ST1300).

Just an update...
I was able to get out in the garage a few days ago for troubleshooting. I separated the brake pads slightly to reduce drag and spun the wheel several times in neutral. It didn't sound anything like in the video mentioned earlier and it didn't seem to have any tight spots. One noise I could detect is if I moved the wheel forward and then quickly reverse. I could hear a small thunk from the u-joint area at the front. I don't know how much slop the splines have, so this might be normal. It wasn't the alarming thunk I heard while riding last year.

With my findings, or lack thereof, I decided not to pull the wheel (took a ride instead) due to limited time. Since u-joint problems manifest themselves over time rather than a sudden unexpected failure, I plan on riding and commuting with it. If it is the u-joint, that is still my suspicion, it should make itself known in due time. I will update again when that happens.

I think you get about an 1 1/2" of rotation on the rear wheel from the play in the drive, on a good bike.

My money is still on the flange/driven bearing...if it is damaged, those bearings and cages grenade and end up all over the inside of the rear drive causing some pretty expensive repairs. I would also replace the O-Rings each time the wheel comes off. If the o-ring on the wheel gives up he ghost it can cause damage to both the splines and the wheel its self from metal to metal contact .02

Well, the verdict is in...
--
Upon disassembly, I checked the bearings before going further. Everything seemed fine so I went ahead replacing the u-joint. What a pain in the butt! The old one was pretty loose, but no smoking gun. Put it back together except for the bodywork and went for a spin. Within 20 miles, I heard the sound again. Slightly different, but there.

Long story short, replaced the flange bearings and the small wheel bearing. That fixed it. So to the guys that were saying this from the beginning, good job and thank you.

Maybe this will help someone in the future, but after replacing the u-joint, I found that I could reproduce the sound by decelerating and leaning left. When I leaned to the right, the sound went away. Between that and the advice from this thread, I chose to replace the bearings and I am glad that I did.

While the bodywork was still off, I checked the valves, replaced the plugs, and changed the thermostat and coolant. All is good now and my mileage is back to near 50 mpg. I've put over 600 miles on since the repair and everything is still great.

Well glad you got it all taken care of without to much pain. Next time listen to the experts here and start with the easier stuff. Now go enjoy that bike.