Rear brake flush on a non-ABS

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Anyone put together any how-to video on a rear brake fluid flush for a non-ABS yet? Snooped around on here but didn't see one. Thought I might give it a whirl on the bike this weekend, since the weather took a crap again. I guess I can resort to the manual too if need be.
 
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Holy cow, this makes the manual look like a comic book. Great write up. Now, if only all that plastic didn't have to come off first. I clearly did not understand my brake system prior to reading through this. Last year I thought I did good just doing the front reservoir......heck I barely scratched the surface!! Thanks for the link!!
 
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Yep - used it last year to do mine.

Come to Pardeeville the first weekend in May for the Tech Event. Several on hand that will watch over you and lend a helping hand if needed.
Kevin, will all the necessary tools be there and available to use with some guidance? That's a good idea if all I gotta do is show up with the bike...
 
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Holy cow, this makes the manual look like a comic book. Great write up. Now, if only all that plastic didn't have to come off first. I clearly did not understand my brake system prior to reading through this. Last year I thought I did good just doing the front reservoir......heck I barely scratched the surface!! Thanks for the link!!
Last time I bled my brake system I already had the Tupperware off, but I understand that you can simply loosen or remove a few fasteners to be able to move the right middle cowl out enough to get to the bleeder for the PCV. All the plastic doesn't need to be removed to flush/bleed the brakes. Not that difficult if you follow the manual procedure, just be sure you know what you're about to do and in what sequence before you ever turn a wrench on it.
 

Kevin_56

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Kevin, will all the necessary tools be there and available to use with some guidance? That's a good idea if all I gotta do is show up with the bike...
I have the vacuum operated Mityvac that is linked in the above article. It just happens to be at Pardeeville from last years event. Many qualified people will be there to lend a hand. I see you found the thread on the Tech event. Come on up.
 
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I have the vacuum operated Mityvac that is linked in the above article. It just happens to be at Pardeeville from last years event. Many qualified people will be there to lend a hand. I see you found the thread on the Tech event. Come on up.
Gonna do my best to get there. Sounds like a learning experience. I'll be watching the Tech thread closely
 
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Don't do a rear brake flush.....do a correct and full system flush is you want it done correctly :)
 
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Haven't seen this point specifically addressed, but the reason you don't want to bleed "just" the rear brake is because the the brakes on an ST are part of a linked brake system (aka combined brake system). The rear brake is not an independent unit. The article that Mellow pointed you to has a nice colored chart in a post on the second page showing the system. Hit THIS link to go directly to that post. Just click on the colored charts to expand.

A bit more technical explanation of the Linked/Combined brake system can be found on the Honda website HERE.
 
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Haven't seen this point specifically addressed, but the reason you don't want to bleed "just" the rear brake is because the the brakes on an ST are part of a linked brake system (aka combined brake system). The rear brake is not an independent unit. The article that Mellow pointed you to has a nice colored chart in a post on the second page showing the system. Hit THIS link to go directly to that post. Just click on the colored charts to expand.

A bit more technical explanation of the Linked/Combined brake system can be found on the Honda website HERE.
:plus1:
 

Kevin_56

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Yes the 1300 is a linked system and when applying the rear brake pedal one piston on each of the front calipers are actuated. The rear caliper also has pistons actuated from the left front caliper via the SMS. But each hydraulic system is independent from the other. NO shared fluids. Doing a fluid flush for either circuit does not effect the other. Will you have optimum braking if you only do one? Maybe not. Is it a good idea to do both at the same time, yes. Do you have to, no.

Some, including myself, read the bleed sequence in the service manual and said, WOW. With the help of those in the know, I did mine following one of the set of steps members here created. It is not that bad. The front and the clutch are quite easy to do and I can see riders doing those first. At least two of the systems are fairly straight forward.
 

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The rear caliper also has pistons actuated from the left front caliper via the SMS. But each hydraulic system is independent from the other. NO shared fluids. Doing a fluid flush for either circuit does not effect the other.
Ahh.. Kevin.. that is where the conundrum is. Is the OP talking about the rear calipers or the rear system? As you know, to do the whole rear system you end up doing some fronts and a PCV valve.

If you only flush the rear caliper, you leave old fluid, including water and maybe air in the lines to the front portion of the rear brakes.
 

Kevin_56

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Ahh.. Kevin.. that is where the conundrum is. Is the OP talking about the rear calipers or the rear system? As you know, to do the whole rear system you end up doing some fronts and a PCV valve.

If you only flush the rear caliper, you leave old fluid, including water and maybe air in the lines to the front portion of the rear brakes.
Very good point. The first post is not 100% clear. He sates "rear brake fluid", my take is the entire rear brake system to "flush" the entire system. That is my read on his request for a video. Not to do the entire sequence is asking for trouble. Now lets get this job done, so we can all go out and RIDE.
 
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But each hydraulic system is independent from the other. NO shared fluids. Doing a fluid flush for either circuit does not effect the other. Will you have optimum braking if you only do one? Maybe not. Is it a good idea to do both at the same time, yes. Do you have to, no.
On a non-linked brake system like the Suzuki Bandit I had, both the rear and front brakes are completely independent of one another. Press on the rear brake pedal and it will only affect the rear brake caliper. Squeeze the front brake lever and only the front brakes are activated. This is not the case with our ST's as application of either will affect the other. This is what I meant by saying that the rear brake is not an independent unit.

If you want to bleed the brakes properly and get air out of your system, you can't just do a "rear brake fluid flush". There are two independent hydraulic circuits that affect the rear brakes and one of those systems also shares its fluid with two other major components; the secondary master cylinder and the proportioning valve. This is why Honda has a stepwise procedure for bleeding that needs to be followed if one wants the systems purged of air.
 
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On a non-linked brake system like the Suzuki Bandit I had, both the rear and front brakes are completely independent of one another. Press on the rear brake pedal and it will only affect the rear brake caliper. Squeeze the front brake lever and only the front brakes are activated. This is not the case with our ST's as application of either will affect the other. This is what I meant by saying that the rear brake is not an independent unit.

If you want to bleed the brakes properly and get air out of your system, you can't just do a "rear brake fluid flush". There are two independent hydraulic circuits that affect the rear brakes and one of those systems also shares its fluid with two other major components; the secondary master cylinder and the proportioning valve. This is why Honda has a stepwise procedure for bleeding that needs to be followed if one wants the systems purged of air.
Ding...Ding...Ding.....we have a winner!
 

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Ding...Ding...Ding.....we have a winner!
DO we. Not one drop of brake fluid goes to the rear brake caliper from the front reservoir. Bleeding/flushing the rear SYSTEM per the steps outlined by either members here or the service manual will replace the old fluid with the new fluid you pour into the rear reservoir.

The OP was asking for a video on the rear brake flush. He got a really good link from Joe on a how to. Not once was it ever stated there was air.

The brake fluids from either the front or rear reservoirs do not mix/link. If you bleed/flush either system per procedure, you have replace the old with new through each reservoir. The rear caliper is operated from the front caliper via a mechanical (SMS) operation. That fluid in the SMS comes from the rear reservoir. The operation of the front calipers from the rear brake pedal is done through brake lines from the rear master cylinder. There are delay valves and proportional valves that control this linking, but no fluids are shared.

Is it best to do both, YES. Will there be a catastrophic failure if you only do one or the other, no. Now, if you are having symptoms of air in the lines, it would be hard to tell which circuit to do. Then by all means, you do want to do both.

If all you are wanting to do is replace old with new, then you can do one or both. I will agree that it makes sense to do both. But to say you can not just do a "rear brake flush" is not correct. I am not a Honda trained mechanic. Would be interesting to get their take on it. I just may do that. I know one that I would trust my bike with, which translate to my life.
 
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I have not met nor worked with many Honda trained mechanics that knew or followed the correct bleeding procedure on these bikes :rofl1: but I have assisted members who've wanted their systems bled correctly after their trustworthy Honda trained mechanic worked on their bike ;)
While you can move fluid from either system, you will not be able to purge the air out of the system correctly unless you do the entire procedure from start to finish.
 

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I have not met nor worked with many Honda trained mechanics that knew or followed the correct bleeding procedure on these bikes :rofl1: but I have assisted members who've wanted their systems bled correctly after their trustworthy Honda trained mechanic worked on their bike ;)
While you can move fluid from either system, you will not be able to purge the air out of the system correctly unless you do the entire procedure from start to finish.
I have seen two certified Honda mechanics in the Santa Barbara area who did not know how to bleed the brakes properly on an ST. :confused:
 
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I had a Honda trained mechanic bleed my brakes and they've never been as good since!:well1:
Even more the reason to ride up and visit me :rofl1:
I keep hoping someday you'll make it over this far, as I would love to buy you lunch and whisper at your bike a little.
Igofar
 
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