Need some help with a fork seal/oil change on a '01 ST11

paulcb

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2001 ST1100 here, non-ABS. Changing the fork seals on both sides. Got both forks removed, no issues. Disassembled the right one, cleaned it up, back together with new seal and dust cap. Next step is oil fill and reassembly. This is where I've got some questions. Below is the "cartridge" that came out of the right side (left side not apart yet). Is this stock? Doesn't look like the pics in my Haynes manual. If stock, do I just drop the whole cartridge in, lock with bottom screw, add oil and set the level? If not stock, how do I know what level to set the oil at? Would really appreciate any advice on this.

Thanks much to Mr. OoSTerhuis for the fork seal R&R kit! Couldn't have done without it.

FullAssly.JPG Top 1.jpg Top2.jpg Bottom.jpg
 
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paulcb

paulcb

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Well, I'm a little embarrassed here. It looks that is stock... this is the right side but I was looking at the left side diagram in my manual. :shrug2:

Also, I thought I needed to set the oil level with that cartridge assembly out of the fork tube, i.e an empty fork tub but that's going to be hard to do since I need the bottom bolt in or it all drains out. :confused: I guess I put that cartridge back in, lock it down and fill to the correct level, after pumping a few times to get the air out? Also, do I really need to take that cartridge apart? Would rather not have to.

FWIW, the bike has 46k on it. AFAIK, this is the first fork oil/seal change. I'm the 3rd owner, the 2nd definitely didn't do anything with the forks. Unsure about the 1st. Again, thanks for any advice.
 
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STurgisSTeele

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Take a look here. Looks like it's the right part. Also, I think I read that you put in the oil first.
 
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paulcb

paulcb

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Thanks irish. I'm a little confused... if I reassemble the whole thing, i.e. with the fork cap screwed down, how do I get the oil in? Feelin kinda dumb here. ;)
 
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If you do it according to the Honda Service Manual, the rod and cartridge are put in, spring stays out for now. The fork is fully compressed and you add oil up to the specified level, which is 7.5 inches from the top of the fork tube on the Standard model. Since the fork was disassembled, it would be a good idea to gently pump the fork a few times to work out any trapped air. Recheck the oil level is at 7.5 inches. Extend the fork leg and put the spring in (tightly wound end down) and connect the rod to the cap.

From the manual: "Before installing the stopper (between the spring seat and lock nut) measure the distance between the lock nut and the top of the damper rod. It should be at least 0.41 inch, or 10.5 mm."

This is the only way to ensure you have the proper amount of fluid in there, as you don't know how much has stayed in during your overhaul. Without actually measuring the oil height, it will likely be over or underfilled.
 
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paulcb

paulcb

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Thanks for the detail Bush. Looks like I need to pull apart that cartridge to remove the spring... job for tomorrow morning.
 
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Bush has got it correct. I always measure the oil level (with the spring out) after pumping a few times.
 

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...I found this video on you tube which explains the job quite well...
Indeed some efforts on useful tips there...

IMHO two major flaws however:
- according to the visible wear mark & discolouration, plus the mentioned 'rust pitting' on the area below the lower clamp, the fork tube shown is shot...
I'd rather replace it, get it re-chromed, etc... then risking the new seal getting damaged and leaking again soon.

- always pay attention at the orientation of the fork bushings(!), en detail: check where the 'split' faces once inside the fork bottom while inserting.
You do not want to have the 'split' facing forward or rear, always insert them with the gap facing to the sides; otherwise it can wear down the chrome on the fork tube.

- while having the fork apart I'd also check for wear of the fork bottom. (wear of the bushings is indicated by lack of the grey coating...)
Insert only the fork tube with the upper bushing fully seated, then slide it in at ~1/2" increments and wiggle the tube against/inside the bottom along the entire travel/working length.
Depending on age, mileage, road conditions, neglect of fork oil changes the inner diameter of the fork bottoms could have worn down to a (wood) barrel-shape, causing lack of front wheel guidance.
 
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paulcb

paulcb

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I did see that video, several times. Was very helpful but missing a few details, at least for me.
 

John OoSTerhuis

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Paul. The suspension fluid level is set with the cartridge secured with the bottom bolt, the spring removed and the fork tube fully compressed. Use the damper rod holding tool in the kit to retrieve the rod and pump it while setting the fluid level with the syphon tool in the kit; also to hold the rod fully extended while you compress the spring and insert the 'C' washer.

I should probably put some more instructions in the kit. I guess I assume folks are using the Honda Service Manual which makes this a lot easier to understand. Very clear step by step for each fork, disassembly and reassembly.

Your right fork appears OEM with the right size, steel spacer.

John
 
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paulcb

paulcb

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Thanks John. Right in the middle of that exact procedure now. Read my Haynes manual a little closer and it says pretty much what you just said. It's actually going pretty well. I'm writing this up as I go along so I remember next time
 

John OoSTerhuis

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I find the dense text and overall format of my Haynes to be a royal PITA to use. Useful only for the occasional picture. IMNSHO, the Honda manual is far superior; everything you need is clearly shown on opposing pages. Oh yeah, and then there is the egregious carb sync error in the Haynes. :(

John
 
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paulcb

paulcb

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Agreed on the Haynes... had to reread things several times... need pics on the same page as directions. Might have to get the Honda manual. Right side done. 1/2 way through the left. Going well.
 
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paulcb

paulcb

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All done and buttoned up. Test ride was good. No leaks (yet) and suspension now returns when fully stopped. Before the rebuild, it stayed compressed a bit until I started moving again. Thanks for all the advice here. I think my brothers '91 ST is next.
 
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Very cool video. I picked up a few tricks on making seal drivers that will come in handy. I noticed this knowledgeable bloke didn't address adding oil and reassembling the right side fork with the damper. He strategically switched to the easy side to show how to do that and wisely so. The side with the damper is a bear to do. Reassembling the damper is a three man job when trying to compress the spring enough to add the spacer, washers and spring seat. All while preventing the damper from dropping down into the tube before the seat is placed. I just did a fork oil flush and replacement and came up with a trick to do it by myself. I wish I took pictures of the operation but I'll try to explain what I did.

You have to have the damper secured into the bottom of the slider with the bottom bolt. I used a bench vice to clamp the lower slider on one of the brake mounting lugs in a vertical orientation. Be careful not to damage this mount point. You may come up with a better way to clamp up the fork. With the fork clamped up I lightly clamped the front axle in the axle clamps so that it sticks out. I used a section of 550 para cord and one of those pistol grip wood clamps. Look up Irwin Quick-Grip clamps to see what I mean. Take the 550 para cord and tie it to the top of the fork spring as close to the top as you can get. Open the quick grip clamp and hook the bottom jaw on the axel. Holding this in place, loop the 550 cord down to the top jaw of the quick-grip clamp then go back up and tie it to the top of the fork spring, opposite the first knot. I hope your good with knots. You need to tighten up this lashing as much as you can to get out all the slack possible. Keep the two tied off cords opposite each other to balance the load you will be pulling. Now when you squeeze the pistol grip, you should compress the fork spring. If all goes well, the spring will compress evenly. Hold up the damper rod while the pistol grip compresses the spring. When you?ve got enough clearance, you should be able to place the spacer, top and bottom washers and spring seat, one-handed. Keep your fingers out of the way when you release the clamp!
I hope I explained that well enough. It took a bit of fiddling but I was able to reassemble the right side buy myself using the clamp technique. This is the most intimidating part of DIY fork maintenance but I have to say it worked pretty well for me. I replaced the dirty fork oil with full synthetic ATF. So far the front end is performing much better. I don?t seem to have the front-end dive that was there before.
I hope this helps.
 
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I use a magnetic pickup tool, a strong one, and attach that to the end of the threaded dampening rod with the nut attached just at the top of the threads. I hold the pickup tool with thumb and index finger, push the spring down with the other hand, and put the C clip back in place with the other 3 fingers on the pickup tool hand. If I try a few times and can't quite get it in there, then I get the wife out into the garage to hold the pickup tool.
 
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If you do it according to the Honda Service Manual, the rod and cartridge are put in, spring stays out for now. The fork is fully compressed and you add oil up to the specified level, which is 7.5 inches from the top of the fork tube on the Standard model. Since the fork was disassembled, it would be a good idea to gently pump the fork a few times to work out any trapped air. Recheck the oil level is at 7.5 inches. Extend the fork leg and put the spring in (tightly wound end down) and connect the rod to the cap.

From the manual: "Before installing the stopper (between the spring seat and lock nut) measure the distance between the lock nut and the top of the damper rod. It should be at least 0.41 inch, or 10.5 mm."

This is the only way to ensure you have the proper amount of fluid in there, as you don't know how much has stayed in during your overhaul. Without actually measuring the oil height, it will likely be over or underfilled.
:plus1: Except to note that Racetech recommends to fill to 130 mm / 5.1 inches from the top with the fork tube all the way slide in and spring removed.
 
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