My Z6 experiance

JPKalishek

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I bought a set of Z6 Metz to see how they went and must say I am disappointed.
I forced myself to stay on them until 7,259 miles to get as much of my money's worth as possible. I felt ready to get off them at about 6500
They still have a bit of life but the rear is just too sketchy in transition. Felt like it was low pressure or oiled as it stepped out when banking into turns. I pulled them yesterday and the front is cupped and about 3/4 worn, so it will be saved as a spare, but it has a seperation issue at the tread cap line:


I didn't notice this when checking the pressure last time around (they held pressure well so it has been a two weeks since last good look) and it looked less obvious while inflated.

Wet grip was okay when new, but I had a few moments while upright when it got worn, and they were okay gripwise in the cold this winter (the cold wet grip was about the same as when it was warmer so that was okay) but looking at my spreadsheet, the Shinko 705 bias rear lasted longer, and gripped as well or better and isn't anything like a sport touring tire and cost much much less.
new rear is a Shinko 777.
 
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I had them on mine and could not get them off fast enough, they make a lot of noise...
they sound like a 4 wheel truck tire with big knobby tread... hated that and they did not
handle good at all. I had a similar problem on my GoldWing. I only got them because they
were cheaper than others... Will live and learn, you got what you pay for...
 

Firstpeke

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Did you ever ride on those when it was REALLY cold, below zero maybe???

That looks like cold weather damage, which normally only occurs when the temps are below zero and the tyre is flexed in use whilst still very cold.... the rubber is harder and cannot flex, resulting in this sort of damage....
 
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JPKalishek

JPKalishek

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Did you ever ride on those when it was REALLY cold, below zero maybe???

That looks like cold weather damage, which normally only occurs when the temps are below zero and the tyre is flexed in use whilst still very cold.... the rubber is harder and cannot flex, resulting in this sort of damage....
Yes, they were often ridden when it was freezing. I ride to work (this winter my truck has only been to work once) and several times this winter it was below freezing here. The lowest I rode in was 28f or so.
I checked the pressure on them and did a nail check etc a bit over a week ago, and did brake pads and a check of the tires 3000 miles ago and didn't see this then. But thinking on it the, line didn't really show to me until I had deflated the tire, and had sprayed some lube on the tires to spoon them off the rims. The lube showed a line where it hadn't cracked and looking closer I found the splitting.
 
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JPKalishek

JPKalishek

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Joined
Jun 17, 2011
Messages
510
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Menominee, Michigan
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2 '91 ST 1100
I had them on mine and could not get them off fast enough, they make a lot of noise...
they sound like a 4 wheel truck tire with big knobby tread... hated that and they did not
handle good at all. I had a similar problem on my GoldWing. I only got them because they
were cheaper than others... Will live and learn, you got what you pay for...
I didn't notice much noise, and when new they were okay handling (better than the OEM, but not as good as PR2&3, or Shinko Verge), but they were a bear to mount (the steel ply build) but easy to get off.
 
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2016 Versys 1000
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I love Z6's....... on the front. The rear does get noisy too early in life...... Z8 on the back now as its tread pattern seems better. Was not a fan of the Z8 on the front.
I like them because they are a grippier tire than most, especially in wet. They won't last quite as long as harder tires, but that's OK by me. I run 40-42 front, 42-44 rear which reduces heat build-up and they last another 1000......
 

John OoSTerhuis

Life Is Good!
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I'm no fan either. The one I tried quickly wore into a 'V' and was twitchy. I hated having to actually hold back pressure to keep my line in a turn... it wanted to keep turning in... Arrrgh! With my Exedras, once set up in a turn I could probably put the throttle lock on and let go of both bars. JMO

John

via iPhone 4S
 
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I'm surprised! I've had the OEM Dunlops, then Avon Azaro's then nothing but the Metzeler Z4 and Z6's since on my "95 1100. So, without looking it up, at least 4 or 5 sets of Metzelers and never had any issues as seen in the photos, always terrific mileage and great grip, wet or dry. 38 psi front and 42 rear.
 
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JPKalishek

JPKalishek

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I love Z6's....... on the front. The rear does get noisy too early in life...... Z8 on the back now as its tread pattern seems better. Was not a fan of the Z8 on the front.
I like them because they are a grippier tire than most, especially in wet. They won't last quite as long as harder tires, but that's OK by me. I run 40-42 front, 42-44 rear which reduces heat build-up and they last another 1000......
40 front and 45 rear for me, and I had two big moments in the wet about 3/4 of the way to worn. I find the PR3s were far better in the wet.

I'm no fan either. The one I tried quickly wore into a 'V' and was twitchy. I hated having to actually hold back pressure to keep my line in a turn... it wanted to keep turning in... Arrrgh! With my Exedras, once set up in a turn I could probably put the throttle lock on and let go of both bars. JMO

John

via iPhone 4S
Same here on the front, though that is less bothering to me. To the end it was quite pronounced.

This will be short...tired once, never again!
Probably not me either.

I'm surprised! I've had the OEM Dunlops, then Avon Azaro's then nothing but the Metzeler Z4 and Z6's since on my "95 1100. So, without looking it up, at least 4 or 5 sets of Metzelers and never had any issues as seen in the photos, always terrific mileage and great grip, wet or dry. 38 psi front and 42 rear.
What totals are you getting? I see many complain about the lack of mileage on the Metzlers, but raves about traction. I found traction was average at the start, not as good in the wet as the PRs (had 2s before and the set of 3s) and at the end worse than the average for me.
I got 9336 miles out of a set of Michelin PR3s, and I got around that or maybe more (this was before I really paid attention to mileage) from Avon Storm II rears, but the issues some have had with them coming apart at speed, and the head shake I got from the front when it was a bit over half worn (I'd get two rears to a front Avon though) cause me to hesitate buying them again.
Wet traction the PR3s were the best I have used so far, and the rear was one size under on the rear (150/70) so there was no "chicken strip" to speak of, They got loud on lean and I thought they were getting a bit less confidence inspiring toward the end, but that was more the temps I think, and it was not near as bad as the Z6.
I was sorely tempted to get a set of the PR4 GTs in the 1300 sizes this time around, but was pressed for cash (had a bad month with issues due to plumbing, foundation, and a lightning strike ... all found on the same day) so I saw the Shinko 777 was available in 160/70 for now and had that older BT45 lurking about (it sure has been worth its $110 price even though it was no deal) so I went low buck again this time.
 
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What totals are you getting? I see many complain about the lack of mileage on the Metzlers, but raves about traction.
Last set got me 20,000 kms on the front and 25,000 on the rear - just into the wear bars, which is how long I run all my tires, unless needed sooner to avoid a change during a trip.

I'm thinking your two big moments in the wet may have been more about the pressures you were running than the tires. The maximum pressure, as stated on the tires, front and rear, is 42 psi. Your rear was overinflated, giving you a smaller contact patch and the vast majority of pressure stats that I've seen riders mention for the 1100 fronts is 36 - 38 psi. Smaller contact patch on the front too, at 40 psi.
 
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JPKalishek

JPKalishek

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15,500 miles from the rear and less (12,500 almost) from the front? Odd that. Most are getting more from the front but not enough to justify not changing them both at the same time.

Both moments I had in the wet were while straight upright, and one was very heavy rain, the other was just rather heavy rain, and it was once the center was very flat, both back in March. The bike was loaded slightly for both (groceries in the bags and top box for one the other just some warmer clothes not needed and a few extra tools) and snapped sideways on acceleration.
I went up on pressures after the first sign of the flat sections showing up because of the feel of the transition. It really would wander a bit at the rear when I would bend it into the corners and once felt best when I accidentally put 50 psi in (note to self, do not rely on the airhose pressure gauge when you don't have your reading glasses on!). I could tell when it was time to add a few psi when the back would start taking a slightly wider set when going through the corners on my run into work. At 42 down to 40 depending on outside temps it would start feeling squishy.
I never had many issues with the front other than that tipping in feeling John complained about that didn't bother me but I did feel, especially at lower speeds, until I noticed that line running around both sides of the tire that became a separation of some sort.
 
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15,500 miles from the rear and less (12,500 almost) from the front? Odd that. Most are getting more from the front but not enough to justify not changing them both at the same time.
Checking my records, I see the last front was changed out while I had the forks off for bushings and seals, over the winter, a couple of years ago. There likely was a few thousand miles left on it, but changing it then would have been more convenient. I usually do get a few thousand more off the front than the rear. On a previous Z6 front, running at 36 psi, I did see some cupping. Now, I keep the front at 38 and no cupping has appeared on my current Z6 front, with 14,000 kms on it. The most I ever got on a Metzeler front was 31,000 kms, but I confess that the last 2,000 or so were well past the wear bars and only ridden locally on dry days.

The centre of my tires do wear more, but they never get a distinctive flat spot, so I have not experienced the problem you report of a transition "edge". Everybody's riding style and the roads they ride are different, so wear rates and wear patterns really mean nothing when comparing. Heavy acceleration and braking habits will wear tires much faster too.

If your front tire that developed the crack was still serviceable, you might have considered taking it to the shop where it was purchased. In my experience with an Avon that did that many years ago, the tire was looked at by an Avon rep and I got a free replacement. Obviously, they want to know about issues like this. After that, I decided to switch to Metzelers and have never seen the need to change brands again.
 
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JPKalishek

JPKalishek

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Checking my records, I see the last front was changed out while I had the forks off for bushings and seals, over the winter, a couple of years ago. There likely was a few thousand miles left on it, but changing it then would have been more convenient. I usually do get a few thousand more off the front than the rear. On a previous Z6 front, running at 36 psi, I did see some cupping. Now, I keep the front at 38 and no cupping has appeared on my current Z6 front, with 14,000 kms on it. The most I ever got on a Metzeler front was 31,000 kms, but I confess that the last 2,000 or so were well past the wear bars and only ridden locally on dry days.
Yeah, if you got the tire, and are that far pulled apart, I can see yanking a tire a bit early and stashing it for spares.
When I did my forks I had also just gotten the Z6s.

There is also the style of paving riding over. I never expect to get the same miles as some of those who, like you, get big numbers from tires. We have a lot of roads with an aberrant form of paving that seems to really eat tires. It is annopying on the back roads, but for some reason they started using it on major highways like US67 ... through my town, they are finally putting a blacktop over the mess. They only good thing about the stuff is it makes a great base for black top. The first time I saw them lay a stretch of it I thought that was what they were doing .... a nice crushed stone base, and a tar and stone seconds layer (sort of like Chip Seal but 3/4" - 1 1/2" stones instead of pea gravel) but they never came back and finished it. Within a week the heavy trucks hauling liquids to gas wells tore the surface up. That was on a small county road, the same rotten stuff has been going on everything but Interstates around here, and lasting about as long. Within a month they are having to patch places, and on a bike it offers low traction, but faster wear. In my truck it doesn't feel much better. Then there is the fine cool summers we get (where it is often over 100+ for weeks straight) where the stones start getting pulled up and the road feels something like cobble stone ... not to mention what the heat can do to tires (I was looking like 10,000 miles on the first set of 705 Shinkos untill we hit summer temps and a few rides in that ate the tires right off the bike. The rubber is too thick and it blistered under the added weight of a ST) but the Z6s never saw any 100 plus and maybe two or three rides over 90, and most of it was under 80. I'd not be surprised if over half of the riding on them was under 60 degrees maybe 50. A lot was done in the 40s. Judging by my experience I doubt much over 6000 miles use in summer. At the price, I can't really afford that. And that would be if I liked the ride and handling of the tires, which for much of their life I did not. Only running the G548 Bridgestone OEM for my bike was more unpleasant to me, and it at least lasted quite a long time (never really looked at mileage then, but the BT45 I now have on the bike was first put on then, and then moved over to my XL and now back, and it looks like it is nearly new and iirc I got around 10,000 miles maybe a good bit more), but G548 traction in the wet was horrid, and in corners it was about as bad as the Metz half way through its life the whole way though. I'd use them again if all I did was Interstates and didn't consider The Darkside, and wasn't thinking of heading off to West Virginia or something.

I'm going to look back to see who I got the Z6s from and fire off an email to them and Metzler about the crack. There isn't much life left in them. I had thought to keep it as a spare until I saw the line.

Something else about pressures. The few pounds over I ran the rear are likely within the range of difference in gauges and the tires never got as hot as they would in July of August where the operating pressures would be a good bit higher than what they got to. I run the max. and vary to find a happy feeling and look at tread wear. I have found, for me, right at max works, and in winter often a bit over on the rear. That misstep of 50psi showed me that even harder tires work best for me, though that is too high for comfort if temps outside get up a bit. I was lucky as I did it in cool weather, and only made a single run into work and to town to get some items, and came home to finish the work I was doing and dug out the digital gauge I have. It was less than 40 miles of riding, but they handled very good. About as well as new,
 
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