Handle bar wobble '91 1100

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SixSTring,

The mounting procedure for the front tire in the manual says that you install the tire (okay tyre :) ) then loosen the pinch bolts and bounce the front end to align the forks after a tire change. (Oh, and remember to tighten them afterwards too!)
It works.
Never had a need to look at the manual cept for torque specs. on the lower pinch bolts. Other than that, for me that's been a known procedure for all bikes since my moto-x days. I did notice however, correct torque specs on the pinch bolts DID make a difference how front-end acted.......who would of thunked it;).
 

ST1100Y

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I did notice however, correct torque specs on the pinch bolts DID make a difference how front-end acted.......who would of thunked it ;).
LOL! Who would indeed... :lol: (same for the fender brace...)

What I haven't seen mentioned is aligning the LHS fork bottom with the groove on the axle...
 

b.carez

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Had this issue through several sets of Avon Storm tires Tried a set of Bridgestone BT-023's this time and wobble was instantly gone. That being said I don't like the Bridgestones as well as I did the Storms so I may switch back when these are worn out and live wth the wobble. As others have stated only happens if you aren't touching the handlebars.
 
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You all can throw blame to tires, or whatever is dreamed up, but until he chooses to replace those ball type steering head bearings with tapered roller type bearings, the 35-45mph wobble isn't magicly going away. Some ST's had this worse than others, and some not at all.
Bottom line.......replace the dern steering head bearings with tapered roller bearings anf be done with it.......Geeee:rolleyes:.
 

ESB

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If and when I let the Front Tire get TOO worn on the 1100, then I will get that 45-35 Decel. Wobble - And U have to be careful, cause its very quick AND strong !! Its time to put on a new front, when wobble starts on mine. After that, I have no shake at any speeds. Using ball bearings in the steering stem, & they're working fine. Just what works on my bike. LOL
 
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ST4Sal

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Dean I had it only once... turned out it was my REAR Tire... Don't remember particulars but replaced tire and it has never come back

YMMMV
 
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No offense, but obviously not workin' to fine if it gets the wobble thing goin' when tire is worn down.
To verify that being true, once I replaced mine with tapered roller, I think i could of wore tire bald and it would'nt have got the wobble thing.....just as solid smooth at that dreaded wobble speed as it is on the upper speeds........but of course you'd loose the signal when it needs a new tire:D............and alot of miles of wear left:).
 
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No offense, but obviously not workin' to fine if it gets the wobble thing goin' when tire is worn down.
To verify that being true, once I replaced mine with tapered roller, I think i could of wore tire bald and it would'nt have got the wobble thing.....just as solid smooth at that dreaded wobble speed as it is on the upper speeds........but of course you'd loose the signal when it needs a new tire:D............and alot of miles of wear left:).
I've run mine down to the cords, the tapered roller is the real solution, but if people want to be in denial and call this a "tire wear indicator feature" that's their business.
 

JPKalishek

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I've run mine down to the cords, the tapered roller is the real solution, but if people want to be in denial and call this a "tire wear indicator feature" that's their business.
hmm. I got tapers and some tires will shake and others will not. the BT45 rear on the front now shakes though it didn't at the start and it is about half worn (pulled for now) . Readjusting the bearings didn't stop the slight wobble it developed. The Storms shake like a demon on the black bike once 1000 miles have been covered, Shinko's Verge on the front went until replacement with not a shimmy. The PR2s on the two tone were fine until the very end, then got a slight wobble, and the PR3s never shook, even though the tires were very scalloped and quite loud by the time I yanked them. The Metzlers never had a wobble either, they just never really stuck. It certainly ain't just not running the tapers.
Tapered bearings do help a ton (I first went with them on the black on the very first set of Storms soon after buying the bike and it lessened the shake a good bit, but it still shook on decel and in turbulence behind a truck) but there are plenty of things that can cause it. Shinko Verge in 160/60 rear 120/70 front are like riding a fish on the two tone (that was the size rear on the two tone when I bought it from Doghouse), and track perfectly fine on the black.
 

ST1100Y

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You all can throw blame to tires, or whatever is dreamed up, but until he chooses to replace those ball type steering head bearings with tapered roller type bearings, the 35-45mph wobble isn't magicly going away...
Can't confirm that... running OEM ball type head-bearings on all my ST's since '92... always properly installed, torqued and lubed though...
Then we have things like suspension settings, tire MFG/model, inflation, payload, size of windscreen, clothing of rider, etc... as factors...
New set of G547/548 on, the bikes run like on rails... till about 3/4 of the tire lifetime, the wear pattern dawns a slight tendency of dec wobble, increasing towards the end of their usage (in my case/area ~12Tkm/7500miles till TWI surface)... slap new rubbers on an the symptoms are gone...

The tires I faced incurable wobble were all radials... go figure ;-)

BTW did a survey on the Pan-European list a couple of years ago open that in >90% the source of dec wobble symptoms came from the rear... tire, wear pattern, suspension, etc...
 
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I've run mine down to the cords, the tapered roller is the real solution, but if people want to be in denial and call this a "tire wear indicator feature" that's their business.
Could'nt agree more;)..........so unless a'newbie' has the same question, I'm 'done with it':D.
 

JPKalishek

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Can't confirm that... running OEM ball type head-bearings on all my ST's since '92... always properly installed, torqued and lubed though...
Then we have things like suspension settings, tire MFG/model, inflation, payload, size of windscreen, clothing of rider, etc... as factors...
New set of G547/548 on, the bikes run like on rails... till about 3/4 of the tire lifetime, the wear pattern dawns a slight tendency of dec wobble, increasing towards the end of their usage (in my case/area ~12Tkm/7500miles till TWI surface)... slap new rubbers on an the symptoms are gone...

The tires I faced incurable wobble were all radials... go figure ;-)

BTW did a survey on the Pan-European list a couple of years ago open that in >90% the source of dec wobble symptoms came from the rear... tire, wear pattern, suspension, etc...
The G547 I ran was fine (other than not having the traction in turns) until toward the end, but my issues were wet traction and a tendency to do odd things on painted lines and seams with slight differences in height. Rear induce wobbles feel different to me than ones from the front. I was using the same front tire for the G547 as I was with the Shinko 777. The BT45 rear. With the 547 I never had the decel headshake. With the 777 I got the line wobbles first (as it got the big flat surface and they were worse than the 547), then at the very end I got a slight head shake from the front. So I had shake from bias tires, but agree it was not as bad the that I have had from radials (well, especially with the shaker specials aka Avon Storm II), but the Bias tires had more wobbles from the rears over lines, seams, grooves, and whatnot (except the Shinko 705. The only wobbles I got from it were from the flat that over heated the first radial).
 
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ST1100Y

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The G547 I ran was fine (other than not having the traction in turns) until toward the end, but my issues were wet traction and a tendency to do odd things on painted lines and seams with slight differences in height.
Can't complain about wet grip, but I probably brake-in and wear them Exedra's down differently (rough, abrasive winter tarmac, bit of an aggressive style heats them up quite well, so their surface ends up silky-dull and pretty sticky...); wouldn't challenge a new set much in wet for the first ~200 miles though, not broken-in there even might surprise on dry roads... the guy at my w/shop even spraiys them down with brake cleaner and gives them a good wipe with sandpaper...
Interesting that you complain about sensitivity to grooves, seams and such, as I only experience this tendency with a pretty worn down set (flat centre spot plus side-cupping on the rear, front pretty pointed due worn down towards the sides), whilst the radials I had where instantly sensitive to even minor things like white-lines and tar-snakes...

Might be that the mixture of "modern" radial tires provides marginal improved wet-grip, but since their only provide like 50% of the lifetime (I ride them to shreds and then they start to smear...), their not an option for me...
 

ST4Sal

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Brant,
so what a bout the people that have the tapered bearings and still get wobble? Or the guys who have more than 100 K on OEM bearings and never had the wobble? Or the guy who only had wobble once in over 300K and it was his tire? Oh I get it someone has an opinion different than yours so they must be wrong??

Way to help out the group!!!
 

JPKalishek

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Can't complain about wet grip, but I probably brake-in and wear them Exedra's down differently (rough, abrasive winter tarmac, bit of an aggressive style heats them up quite well, so their surface ends up silky-dull and pretty sticky...); wouldn't challenge a new set much in wet for the first ~200 miles though, not broken-in there even might surprise on dry roads... the guy at my w/shop even spraiys them down with brake cleaner and gives them a good wipe with sandpaper...
Interesting that you complain about sensitivity to grooves, seams and such, as I only experience this tendency with a pretty worn down set (flat centre spot plus side-cupping on the rear, front pretty pointed due worn down towards the sides), whilst the radials I had where instantly sensitive to even minor things like white-lines and tar-snakes...

Might be that the mixture of "modern" radial tires provides marginal improved wet-grip, but since their only provide like 50% of the lifetime (I ride them to shreds and then they start to smear...), their not an option for me...
I was only getting that line and seam issue at the end, the wet traction was never great for me, but then like you say, our roads are a bit different. I guess I should try the things again now that I am keeping track of miles and cost per mile. The G547 I used made the trip from Michigan and then went back and came home the next year on the two tone, so it had a good bit of miles on it (those trips were a bit over 4000 miles alone).
 
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so what a bout the people that have the tapered bearings and still get wobble? Or the guys who have more than 100 K on OEM bearings and never had the wobble?
That's me - 176,000 km on OEM balls (re-torqued and re-lubed a couple of times), never had a wobble, but then . . . . I never take both hands off the bars, which is the biggest reason I ever see on these forums when people complain about a wobble.:rolleyes:
 
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Brant,
so what a bout the people that have the tapered bearings and still get wobble? Or the guys who have more than 100 K on OEM bearings and never had the wobble? Or the guy who only had wobble once in over 300K and it was his tire?
Nobody is trying to say that anything applies 100% of the time, there are a few variables involved in this issue.

1. production tolerances in the steering components
2. assembly tolerances using those components
3. bearing adjustment variations at the factory
4. bearing adjustment variations by the owner

So based on the variations above, many combinations do exist.

Most people who encounter headshake and switch to tapered bearings report that they do not experience it again, or its effect is greatly diminished to the point where its a non-issue.

The torque spec for the tapered bearings is obviously not the same as in the manual because they're a totally different bearing type. I can't recall if I saw a torque spec or not for the tapered bearings when I did mine years ago, but I went by feel. It would be safe to assume that not everybody does this adjustment exactly the same way, so there could be tapered bearings out there that are adjusted too loosely so some shake remains.

There may also be a few people out there who tried re-torquing their OEM ball bearings and found a shake-resistant setting there as well. Martin is using OEM and I trust his ability to adjust and maintain them, so I'm going to consider his input to be best case for OEM. His claim above makes it sound like he still gets some shake at 3/4 tire life and beyond, but its not clear exactly how much from his post. He also seems to be unable to run radial tires at all without immediate problems. I switched mine over to tapered many years ago and got no shake at all at any point in the tire life from that point forward regardless of tire type, make, or model. I'd replace tires that were cupped, worn down to the cords, and still never had shake problems.

So in my case the tapered bearings made all the difference, and many others report the same result. If there are folks who have performed OEM bearing adjustments and achieved the same result, good for them, I'd like to hear their replies.
 

ST1100Y

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So in my case the tapered bearings made all the difference, and many others report the same result.
I always was under the impression that US riders prefer the tampered purely over their lifetime, whilst you will have to replace the OEM ball types every/after 70~100Tkm/43~60Kmiles (varying with payload, terrain, road surface, if folks are keen with pressure wash, etc...)

To torque head bearings till a dec wobble reduces/vanishes is only masking the true/real cause (and is technically negligent IMHO...)...
The torque on the OEM ball types provides some damping (breakaway torque by design), but should not be exceeded due risk of braking a race, which would result in a serious accident...
Same when ignoring a centre-notch or to even re-torque an obviously worn bearing instead of replacement...

My mech found a procedure on how to check proper torque without having to take the covers and handlebar off:
place bike on centre-stand, get a second person to lean on the carrier-plate till the rear tire rest on the deck, kneel by front wheel, turn steering to ~45? and let go if the wheel; the forks should then slowly rotate further till the limiter, they should not stuck in place, nor just fall through...
Dunno if that procedure could be used on tampered head bearings as well...
 

JPKalishek

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I always was under the impression that US riders prefer the tampered purely over their lifetime, whilst you will have to replace the OEM ball types every/after 70~100Tkm/43~60Kmiles (varying with payload, terrain, road surface, if folks are keen with pressure wash, etc...)

To torque head bearings till a dec wobble reduces/vanishes is only masking the true/real cause (and is technically negligent IMHO...)...
The torque on the OEM ball types provides some damping (breakaway torque by design), but should not be exceeded due risk of braking a race, which would result in a serious accident...
Same when ignoring a centre-notch or to even re-torque an obviously worn bearing instead of replacement...

My mech found a procedure on how to check proper torque without having to take the covers and handlebar off:
place bike on centre-stand, get a second person to lean on the carrier-plate till the rear tire rest on the deck, kneel by front wheel, turn steering to ~45? and let go if the wheel; the forks should then slowly rotate further till the limiter, they should not stuck in place, nor just fall through...
Dunno if that procedure could be used on tampered head bearings as well...
just realized I conflated the G547/548 tires...I used the 548 rear...egad.

Tapers have a bit more drag in the design, so they would move slightly slower than your mech's test for balls. The design is like a slight dampener. I was messing with mine a bit ago and noticed it now has a definite center notch so will need to change the bearings soon. The have almost 45,000 miles on them. So far the notch is mostly on center and not overly evident once off to the side. I am a bit too heavy and ride a bit too hard on some rough roads.
 
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