Anybody ride with Kevlar jeans or equivalent?

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Somewhere on the web there was posting of a recent test done on different motorcycle gear materials and their performance summaries. Leather always comes out on top of the ones I've seen. That being said if you are riding in hot climates (no worries here) heat stroke is probably a bigger risk than going down on the road. 100 degree plus temps in leather is pretty dangerous. That being said you could look at perforated leather....or textile material with leather in critical areas.
Perhaps the most dangerous aspect of buying motorcycle gear is that many of us assume that since it's "designed" for riding we are protected somehow. Not really the case.....lots of big name companies produce absolute rubbish when it comes to providing impact/abrasion protection but go to town on zippers and other features. Education here folks is our ally.

http://www.motorcycleforum.com/showthread.php?t=100827
http://www.trainwreckstudios.net/abrasion/road.html
 
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Good info. One very big factor is the armor. Leather without armor might help with abrasion but isn't going to prevent many broken bones. The "one use" argument against textile is not a factor for me. If I have to buy a new garment after a get off so be it.
If I have to ride in hot sweaty leather....it ruins the ride, I would lose my desire to ride and sell my bike.
Like the article suggested....I added up what is most important to me and chose. I chose textile with good armor. YMMV

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GBChief

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I have several pairs of the Diamond Gusset "Defender" jeans. They are comfortable and offer some skid protection. They also blend in well with the crowd and don't scream "Body Armor." The big advantage, for me, is their store in Lynchburg and that they offer all sizes. If you don't don't do well with the even sizes (34, 36, etc .), they absolutely have you covered.
 
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Draggin' Jeans going on eight years now. Worn in 110+ temps in Phoenix and Death Valley, 32 degrees on Million Dollar Highway. Worn on Edelweiss High Alpine tour in 2006.

Tested in a 70mph get-off on I-26 two years ago. No rash in jeans area, but wore thru over my little 4" ViseGrip in back pocket. Still wear them.
 
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When you are approaching temperature considerably hotter then your body you actually need to limit airflow and control the evaporation. Full mesh is not cooler for your body because as you said, the sweat disappears way too fast.
You'll actually sweat less if the sweat is carried away faster. We sweat as a cooling mechanism so the faster the sweat is carried away, the cooler we will be and so, the less we will sweat.

People even sweat in hot tubs... and yeah, that's not a pleasant picture.
 

T_C

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We sweat as a cooling mechanism so the faster the sweat is carried away, the cooler we will be and so, the less we will sweat.
The problem is that the hot wind is stronger and the sweat is evaporated and carried away faster before it had a chance to cool you.

As the little cool bit of air that surrounds the evaporating water is whisked away at 70mph it didn't do you much good.
Sweating itself is not what cools you, the evaporating water is where the cooling is. That is where you need to find the happy balance... let the body sweat just a little slower then the wind is blowing.
 
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I think the whoe mesh/sweat/cooling thing doesn't have one answer. It depends lot on who and where you are. For me being a heavy sweater a mesh jacket is by far the best here in Florida. The jacket keeps the sun off while letting air flow. Out west may be different for me.
 
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Mesh is not the best gear in that type of heat go to the IBA web site and read about heat management.
+1. HERE is the link to the PDF of the IBA article on riding in hot weather. This is a "must read" for anyone riding in summer weather, especially riding in dry heat for extended periods of time.

As to mesh, once it gets around 95, I take the mesh off and put the Darien back on.
 

dduelin

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+1. HERE is the link to the PDF of the IBA article on riding in hot weather. This is a "must read" for anyone riding in summer weather, especially riding in dry heat for extended periods of time.

As to mesh, once it gets around 95, I take the mesh off and put the Darien back on.
I'm sure Mr. Austin meant well and the article is of interest but his reasoning is flawed and thus the conclusion must be as well. In the third paragraph of page 3 he makes an assumption that isn't true for many of us. If you are riding a faired motorcycle vs the assumed unfaired motorcycle the water consumption numbers will have no co-relation to reality. Behind a sport tourers fairing and windshield we have less area exposed to the wind than than his calculations require. Secondly, the assumption is also made that the rider is wearing mesh that does not impede the flow of air across exposed skin. Many riders, including myself wear a wicking layer under mesh that insulates the skin from air flow and the garment itself significantly blocks or slows the speed of air moving under the mesh layer. Additionally, mesh jackets often have solid panels of some sort and the holes in the actual area of mesh may be too small to allow air to move at full speed into and under the garment. When the air cannot flow unimpeded into the garment a portion of it flows across the outside of the garment, further reducing the speed of air against the wicking layer. For these reasons the conclusions the author comes cannot be trusted to have a high level of accuracy.

I have no doubt from my own experience riding in the 90s and low 100s that at some point I'm cooler wearing my Aerostich and configuring the vents and pockets to scoop air feels cooler but I don't think the difference in liquid intake requirement is nearly as stark as the article portrays and the crossover point is not exactly 93 degrees. In near 100 degree heat under mesh on long trips I supplement my own sweat production by carrying a liter squirt bottle and wetting my neck gaiter and wicking shirt while riding. This is water that goes to its cooling work instantly and doesn't have to be consumed. A rewetting every 15 or 20 minutes is like riding in air conditioning. In the south the humidity may be 75 to 95% and evaporates slower than it would in dry and arid conditions so this may not work for everyone everywhere.
 
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The problem is that the hot wind is stronger and the sweat is evaporated and carried away faster before it had a chance to cool you.

As the little cool bit of air that surrounds the evaporating water is whisked away at 70mph it didn't do you much good.
Sweating itself is not what cools you, the evaporating water is where the cooling is. That is where you need to find the happy balance... let the body sweat just a little slower then the wind is blowing.
Thanks for the clarification. Yes, it's evaporation that cools, not merely sweating. I hadn't thought of it the way you put it since I've done a lot more sweating on a bicycle (where it's never carried away too fast), but you make a valid point.
 

T_C

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I'm a cyclist myself.

Always something new to learn.
A few years ago while riding RAGBRAI I was wearing our 'team' jersey. I learned that not all synthetic fabrics made into a jersey shape are good for wearing on warm days. That jersey is warmer than some thermal underwear I own.

But knowing how cheap the the purchaser was. I'm not surprised. But now I have a nice winter jersey. :)
 
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If you are riding a faired motorcycle vs the assumed unfaired motorcycle the water consumption numbers will have no co-relation to reality. Behind a sport tourers fairing and windshield we have less area exposed to the wind than than his calculations require.
Because of the many configurations of fairings & windscreens on different bikes and the resulting differences in air flow characteristics, the author almost had to use an unfaired bike as an example.

Secondly, the assumption is also made that the rider is wearing mesh that does not impede the flow of air across exposed skin.
That pretty much describes my Joe Rocket Phoenix. Yes, technically you can say that the mesh fabric blocks part of air flow but there is still a heck of a lot of evaporative power in what wind does reach you when you're doing 60 to 80 mph, even if you are wearing a T-shirt underneath like I do.

I have no doubt from my own experience riding in the 90s and low 100s that at some point I'm cooler wearing my Aerostich and configuring the vents and pockets to scoop air feels cooler but I don't think the difference in liquid intake requirement is nearly as stark as the article portrays and the crossover point is not exactly 93 degrees.
I think it's important not to get lost in the "forest" of details of his calculations. In my mind, the thing to take away from this article is the general principle that at some temperature/humidity combination, evaporation is going to become excessive and become counterproductive (from both a body temp and hydration standpoint). For my area, that temperature seems to be about 95. In others it could be less. It's better to be safe than sorry where heat stroke, dehydration and fatigue are concerned.

Beyond 95 degrees, wearing a mesh jacket feels to me like I'm sitting in front of a hair dryer on high heat. I can literally feel the waves of super hot air coming off the concrete. With my Aerostich on, that is not a problem.

In near 100 degree heat under mesh on long trips I supplement my own sweat production by carrying a liter squirt bottle and wetting my neck gaiter and wicking shirt while riding. This is water that goes to its cooling work instantly and doesn't have to be consumed. A rewetting every 15 or 20 minutes is like riding in air conditioning.
I do the same thing by wetting my T-shirt, but not every 15 or 20 minutes. That frequency would probably be required with a mesh jacket but not with my Darien. A 15 to 20 minute interval to stop and wet down is just not doable when I'm on a LD trip because of the need to make decent daily mileage. This is just one of the reasons I never use my mesh jacket while on a LD trip. I can ride just fine in all temperature ranges with my Darien.

[FONT=&amp]One of the little tricks I've used to keep cool on those 100F+- days is to pour crushed ice in the pockets of my Darien. Works well to keep the core temp down.

[/FONT]
 
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dduelin

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Because of the many configurations of fairings & windscreens on different bikes and the resulting differences in air flow characteristics, the author almost had to use an unfaired bike as an example.



That pretty much describes my Joe Rocket Phoenix. Yes, technically you can say that the mesh fabric blocks part of air flow but there is still a heck of a lot of evaporative power in what wind does reach you when you're doing 60 to 80 mph, even if you are wearing a T-shirt underneath like I do.



I think it's important not to get lost in the "forest" of details of his calculations. In my mind, the thing to take away from this article is the general principle that at some temperature/humidity combination, evaporation is going to become excessive and become counterproductive (from both a body temp and hydration standpoint). For my area, that temperature seems to be about 95. In others it could be less. It's better to be safe than sorry where heat stroke, dehydration and fatigue is concerned.

Beyond 95 degrees, wearing a mesh jacket feels to me like I'm sitting in front of a hair dryer on high heat. I can literally feel the waves of super hot air coming off the concrete. With my Aerostich on, that is not a problem.



I do the same thing by wetting my T-shirt, but not every 15 or 20 minutes. That frequency would probably be required with a mesh jacket but not with my Darien. A 15 to 20 minute interval to stop and wet down is just not doable when I'm on a LD trip because of the need to make decent daily mileage. This is just one of the reasons I never use my mesh jacket while on a LD trip. I can ride just fine in all temperature ranges with my Darien.

[FONT=&]One of the little tricks I've used to keep cool on those 100F+- days is to pour crushed ice in the pockets of my Darien. Works well to keep the core temp down.

[/FONT]
We don't have a serious disagreement here at all but the article is often quoted as support for not wearing mesh in heat and the assumptions made seriously flaw the author's conclusion. If the science behind it is important you see what I mean.

You missed the words "when riding" when I spoke of wetting clothing several times an hour in serious heat. I don't have to stop to do that - I carry a squirt bottle in the left fairing pocket. It doesn't take but one hand and a moment to wet the gaiter and front of my shirt a little. Again, all my riding, both day rides and IBA stuff, has all been in the humid to relatively humid eastern or south eastern US. In arid dry climes results would differ. I just don't like wearing my Stich during the summer on the ST when mesh works better for me. The NC700X is different. My long tour I took last June/July I wore the Stich as that bike has lots more air flow and can vent the suit very well. Cheers.
 
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You missed the words "when riding" when I spoke of wetting clothing several times an hour in serious heat. I don't have to stop to do that - I carry a squirt bottle in the left fairing pocket. It doesn't take but one hand and a moment to wet the gaiter and front of my shirt a little.
You're right, I did miss the part about you wetting down while riding (literally). That's a great idea.
 
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SteveST1300

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I don't think you get the same level of eva[porative cooling in the high humidity that you do in the desert south west. I used a cool vest out there and it was bone dry in 15 minutes under mesh. I think it would have worked better under a full jacket with vents. And the cool vest does not work near as well when it is humid.
 
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