Parts to have on hand for valve check/adjustment

T_C said:

At 71k miles Doug. And mine are quite a ways out.

1 exhuast .024 and .037; intake .021 & .034
2 exhuast .025 and .038; intake .019 & .032
3 exhuast .052 and .064; intake .056 & .067
4 exhuast .057 and .065; intake .044 & .057

Wonder if this explains why I get a solid FI light afetr extended running at 5k rpm?
Or why I don't get much of a chatter if you bog it down at low rpm?

Crud.. do I really have to pull the throttle bodies to get the right side cams out?

I need more beer!

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Those numbers just don't make any sense at all. You should be between 0.005-0.007 on intake and 0.009-0.011 on exhaust, and they never go more than a thou or two out.

Also, most feeler gauge sets that I've seen don't even go above 0.035, except for spark plug gap gauges, so what are you using to measure with? And what are you measuring?

dwalby said:

Also, most feeler gauge sets that I've seen don't even go above 0.035, except for spark plug gap gauges, so what are you using to measure with? And what are you measuring?

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Those are the measurements from stacking gauges. So they are off slightly as putting a .020 on top of a .030 isn't really .050. But it gets me in the ballpark. for re-assembly and then measuring again.

Uh... ohh.. you know what....

I pulled the cam holder. So tail end of the cams are floating free....

Whew!!!
At 71k miles some of mine are just out.

1 exhaust .007 and .009; intake .006 & .006
2 exhaust .009 and .009; intake .006 & .006
3 exhaust .012 and .010; intake .007 & .006
4 exhaust .008 and .009; intake .007 & .007

But now can I really trust these numbers since I just removed and re-installed the cam bearings?
I turned the engine over a few times by hand.
Hmm...

And this voncludes our lesson today on what not to do during a valve check.

Come back tomorrow for part two. Not sure what it will be... but I'm sure I'll be screwing something up.
T

PS. At the end I buttoned back up the steed fired it up.let the engine get thoroughly warm and everything settled back in. Tomorrow we will get a fresh set of numbers.

T_C said:

But now can I really trust these numbers since I just removed and re-installed the cam bearings?

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The short answer is yes. Assuming you didn't do anything weird torquing them down, once they're set, they generally don't move. You can turn the engine over time after time and the readings won't change. An in-between-er might change by 0.001, but that's really not important. Since you have the shim kit (I think) go ahead and put them all mid-range, although for the two tight exhausts you might want to put them at the loose end of the range for future margin. Measuring every 15k gives you a history to gauge which ones might be continually moving and provide some strategy, but if this is your first time then you don't have that info available. The reality is tight exhausts are what you're really interested in, the others are less important. I say that because once you swap the shims and re-install the cams you may find your new readings aren't exactly the same as your calculations would predict, so don't knock yourself out getting every valve back to exactly mid-range.

Well my numbers did change after firing it up last night then letting it cool for 12 hours. Just in some exhaust valves. Not sure if it was settling in or what.

But now:
1 exhaust .007 and .008; intake .006 & .006
2 exhaust .009 and .009; intake .006 & .006
3 exhaust .009 and .010; intake .007 & .006
4 exhaust .009 and .009; intake .007 & .007

So left side exhaust are getting adjusted. All intakes I'm going within tolerance. Right side exhaust is on the verge of adjusting. But I'll probably let it ride and then go for the adjustment once I return from WeSToc and the garage temperature isn't pushing 100?.

Interesting, can't say I've ever done what you did, but I'm a bit surprised to see the value for just one valve change by 0.003 just by running the bike and measuring again. So it went from out of spec on the loose end of the scale, to just barely in spec on the tight end? Yet the other valve for the same cylinder didn't move at all. All the others were as I would have expected, either identical or only changed by 0.001, so that one valve is very strange assuming there was no error in measurement either time. I think its more common for exhaust valves to tighten over time rather than loosen, so I think I'd trust the second measurement at 0.009.

st1300doug said:

Let us know what the mileage is, when you start & what Valves are off. (Intake or Exhaust) I've yet to do mine at 44,500 miles. As almost 90% say....they have been good at that mileage....even up to 70,000.

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Here's some additional high-mileage first-time valve clearance data from my '06 ST1300A, purchased second hand with 3,000 miles. Seems likely that this is the first valve clearance check to be performed on this motorcycle.

Monday.7.July.2014
86,177 miles
Engine still not running well.

Service Manual Valve Clearance:
Intake Valve: 0.13mm - 0.19mm (0.16mm +/- 0.03mm)
Exhaust Valve: 0.22mm - 0.28mm (0.25mm +/- 0.03mm)

Cylinder 1
In Valve-0 0.16mm (0.006")
In Valve-1 0.17mm (0.007")
Ex Valve-0 0.11mm (0.004")
Ex Valve-1 0.11mm (0.004")

Cylinder 2
In Valve-0 0.15mm (0.006")
In Valve-1 0.16mm (0.006")
Ex Valve-0 0.11mm (0.004")
Ex Valve-1 0.15mm (0.006")

Cylinder 3
In Valve-0 0.16mm (0.006")
In Valve-1 0.17mm (0.007")
Ex Valve-0 0.16mm (0.006")
Ex Valve-1 0.17mm (0.007")

Cylinder 4
In Valve-0 0.15mm (0.006")
In Valve-1 0.16mm (0.006")
Ex Valve-0 0.17mm (0.007")
Ex Valve-1 0.17mm (0.007")

The exhaust valve gap had narrowed well below the minimum factory specification, whilst the inlet valves were all well with in factory specification. The real world consequences of the exhaust valves so far out of specification was, poor engine behavior, horrific fuel economy, and the FI indicator lamp flashing intermittently (always the same fault: IAT failure).

The good news is that once the valve clearance was corrected, engine performance, and fuel economy returned. Though the FI indicator lamp is now constantly indicating an IAT failure, so perhaps that was unrelated to the valve clearance issue.

I knew that I was taking a risk by ignoring the valve clearance check, just the circumstances at the time. Fortunately, it appears that no irreversible damage has occurred.

What I haven't seen being mentioned is a micrometer (screw gauge)...

Shims also wear down, so what's etched into them might not represent their true thickness anymore...

We first measure the "old" gaps, put them in our "shim calculator" (piece of cardboard and a pen on the workbench, portraying the cyl numbers and the valve positions :lol: ), calculate the required new shim, hunt the desired thickness down with the micrometer, cams + buckets out, swap the shims, buckets + cams back in, rotate the engine, measure again...

Is there a preferred set of feeler gauges? Mine start at .0015 and end at .024. (Assuming inches?) It's just a cheap auto parts set for spark plugs from many years ago.

DeanR said:

Mine start at .0015 and end at .024

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Those will work.

.005 through .013 was what I needed once I engaged the proper procedures. :

DeanR said:

Is there a preferred set of feeler gauges? Mine start at .0015 and end at .024. (Assuming inches?) It's just a cheap auto parts set for spark plugs from many years ago.

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Flat feelers are not appropriate for spark plug gap check. Round wire gauge should be used. If your gauges are old and have been heavily used or have rusted and been "cleaned" you need to "mic" each one with a 0.0001" micrometer to confirm the thicknesses.

I would be suspicious on no-name feeler gauge set from discounters. One's from Blue Point (Snap-On), K-D, Proto, or the like should be consistent and suitably hard to hold up measuring against the hardened contact points such as valve train contact surfaces. Pay the few extra dollars and get a good set. I expect a set of the longer ones that taper to a narrower rounded tip might be easier to use for the ST. If you buy a dedicated set, you might be able to bend the last bit of the end so it easily aligns flat between the surfaces to be measured (based upon some video of the process I looked at a while back.

I happen to already have all this stuff, and am also overdue for clearance check/adjust at ~25K miles.