2006 st1300 non abs no start, no fuel pump noise

2006 st1300 non abs, low miles, always garaged, last started about a month ago, never any grief from it in any way.

Planned to trip down to Arkanstoc friday so went to start it yesterday and nothing, this is new, and surprising,..escalated to frustrating.

The most obvious symptoms are.

• Wont start, starter engages and spins motor easily and normally
• Police switch installed is in the run position have it installed in such a way to operate aux lights and headlights (on/off, Hid's) no indication of corrosion here, normal operation
• NO FUEL PUMP NOISE
• Battery voltage at rest over 12.75 v pulls down to 11.4v on a 10 second crank. (headlight off)
• code 9 pulled from the test port

The things I have done

• Drained fuel both tanks added 2 gallons fresh 91 octane with 4 oz of seafoam, yes I measured it.
• chased code 9 trouble per the service manual IAT sensor.
• page 5-22 made all tests relating to this widget all per the manual, voltages in spec, continuity with each conductor, ground and the ECM pins are good. No shorts, opens, grounds or crosses. With what I know about conductors and an Ohmmeter nothing wrong with these 2 wires as they relate to each other and chassis ground.
• have 12v on both sides of all fuses in the fuse tray, inspected FI fuse. Satisfied all fuses are good.
• Removed and bench tested the fuel cutoff relay and the engine stop relay via a 12v battery and an ohmeter. windings and contacts normal operation and resistance, satisfied these two relays are good, and they operate with key on, you can hear and feel them in case something up stream would be preventing their operation(the manual shows two different locations for the fuel cutoff relay, by color codes I choose to call the inboard one the Fuel cutoff relay.)
• Removed the upper tank,(really fun to do) air cleaner housing, to inspect the throttle bodies for signs of mice, none clean as whistle as I would expect.
• Installed a new Battery (Shorai Lithium Iron)
• No corrosion found any where yet.
• searched and read about a jillion trouble related threads (so much for Honda reliability).
• Put it all back together, cleared the codes, No Joy, No new codes, But I may not have cranked it long enough or often enough to set any.

So I have approached this from the fact I could not hear the fuel pump on initial ignition on condition (should I even be able to hear it on all ignition on initiations?) or smell any fuel and the code 9 trouble code and am open to any suggestions for another approach. I thought it would be a fuel related trouble but who knows. I know it is the nature of things that break one day they work the next they don't but a reason for it would be nice.

Going forward is their a way to test the fuel pump external to all the FI stuff that goes on before it, like unplug the black connector and apply battery voltage. Is there a reason to approach this from an electrical/spark related trouble?

So Open to all and any suggestions of where to go next.

If I make Arkanstoc it will probably be in a car

Could try opening up the lower tank and checking the FP leads with a meter. See if there is power there. Could be just a bad pump.

Disconnect the fuel pump connector from the harness....I can't remember the color but just trace it back to the plastic 2 pin connector from the green ground wire that terminates on the top of the lower fuel tank. The connector is along the left side of the frame, maybe green/black, in the vicinity forward of the fuse tray. After disconnecting the fuel pump from the bike's harness connect it temporarily from a known good 12V source and listen for the pump spin up.

If it spins up then reconnect the 2 pin connecter and then fashion a temporary ground from the top of the lower tank to a known good ground and try this again. I've had several electrical gremlins that trace to a problem in the wire harness that brings all the grounds to the lug on the frame. I'll get good continuity on the circuit run but not when the key is ON and a load placed on the device(s). In my case these gremlins were solved individually by creating new direct grounds.

Also check the bank angle sensor.

--Mark

Have about three dozen other Hondas, but a pretty new ST owner so take my comments with a huge grain of salt.
With all my other bikes with fuel pumps, when I suspect a problem, I try to isolate the fuel pump from the circuit, run a line from the output into a gas can and power up the pump directly and see if it's pumping.
Is that easy or hard on an ST?

If it pumps then, the problem is getting power to the pump; if it doesn't then apply Ocam's Razor.

You do have spark at the plugs, correct?

Good Luck.

Blrfl said:

Also check the bank angle sensor.

--Mark

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++1 on this one, happened to me, had me baffled. I would also be looking for a bad fuel pump or wiring to it, as stated.

dduelin said:

connect it temporarily from a known good 12V source

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Yes the obvious, but before I went there wanted to get a feel from the more knowledgeable and experienced, 3 wires input brown from the FCO relay, Green one of jillion green wires chassis/system ground, Brown/Black for the Reserve fuel chassis ground, I suppose to get the Blinky magic on the fuel gauge

duc916 said:

Is that easy or hard on an ST?

Click to expand...

Is any thing ever "easy" on the ST from some of the trouble threads I have read even opening the gas cap can be a struggle

Blrfl said:

Also check the bank angle sensor

Click to expand...

Have not pursued this much, was aware of it and a likely contender for heartache as I kinda thought if it had operated or failed it would prevent the other relays from operating, will examine it more closely via the manual , schematic, and threads

First off the the fuel pump, the easiest, sorta

Thank you Gentlemen, here I go

I would treat it like a flooded engine start before I tore it apart again. Crank for 5 seconds with full throttle (try three times) then no throttle and crank.

I've had mine act up a bit after long sits and this has worked every time.

Good luck

Raymond

ZIAMON said:

I would treat it like a flooded engine start before I tore it apart again. Crank for 5 seconds with full throttle (try three times) then no throttle and crank.

I've had mine act up a bit after long sits and this has worked every time.

Good luck

Raymond

Click to expand...

That would be a great starting point.

Both headlights on when key on?
Any marker lights on when key in the off position?
Dave

ZIAMON said:

flooded engine start before I tore it apart again

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Yeah, raymond I tried that in spite of the no fuel pump noise

STDaveNW said:

Both headlights on when key on?
Any marker lights on when key in the off position?

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Both headlights on? yes when I operate their respective switch on the police switch

any marker lights on when key is off no lights and all accessories normal operation

So going back to Ockham's razor approach, I'll worry about, codes, mice, bad fuel, the dark of the moon you name it after I get some noise out of the fuel pump.

In spite of all the relays before, after between and continuity tests, according to the manual and the 2 Daves , voltage in no noise bad fuel pump which is what we have.

The manual states pin between the green and brown wire of the black male side(ignition side) of the plug that goes to the fuel pump turn key on expect battery voltage for a few seconds then it should go away, it does, next step replace Fuel Pump.

This agrees with the operation of the fuel cutoff relay, it energises the releases and my ear from the last time I heard the pump operate. Something operates the fuel cutoff relay to a non energised state after a few seconds, I thought it was rail pressure but I guess not as I have none. Also applying Battery voltage across the plug female side(fuel pump side) I get nothing.

The green wire from both sides of the plug in addition to the standoff on the top of the lower tank reservoir to chassis ground is as close to a dead short as my meter will resolve, it's not a fluke but it's not junk. This is what I would expect and indicates that at least these grounds are healthy

So I guess I will drain what fuel in in the thing open up the lower tank and see what kinda magic lives in the lower tank and shop for a new fuel pump or a suitable substitute or just look for a box of matches

If you end up replacing the pump I have a known good used one you can have. A new Honda one is the entire in-tank assembly and pricey. An alternative is buying one for a 2000 Honda Accord or the HFP-382 pump you can buy all day long off the Internet. I installed the latter 30,000 miles ago.

Dave I just finished reading this thread

https://www.st-owners.com/forums/showthread.php?118684-ST1300-Fuel-Pump-Replacement

and considering my mother always accused me of being as "tight as the bark on a tree" am pretty sure this is the route I will go. I was fixing to pm you and get an update on this install but 30,000 miles pretty much answers my questions.

I will take the one you have as the rush is over for getting this thing fixed let me know what the cost is for shipping and pain and suffering to 65807 and I will send it your way will order the various other bits needed , as I hate the smell of gasoline in the garage and if it can go wrong it will, if it can leak it will, may not use them but want them on hand just in case

Tom Morgan
65807

ZIAMON said:

I would treat it like a flooded engine start before I tore it apart again.

Click to expand...

Fuel-injected engines don't tend to flood unless an injector is stuck open or the fuel rail pressure is too high.

--Mark

spotz said:

Dave I just finished reading this thread

https://www.st-owners.com/forums/showthread.php?118684-ST1300-Fuel-Pump-Replacement

and considering my mother always accused me of being as "tight as the bark on a tree" am pretty sure this is the route I will go. I was fixing to pm you and get an update on this install but 30,000 miles pretty much answers my questions.

I will take the one you have as the rush is over for getting this thing fixed let me know what the cost is for shipping and pain and suffering to 65807 and I will send it your way will order the various other bits needed , as I hate the smell of gasoline in the garage and if it can go wrong it will, if it can leak it will, may not use them but want them on hand just in case

Tom Morgan
65807

Click to expand...

PM me your mailing address.

As a follow up to this heartache:

dduelin sent me a used fuel he had laying about "For Free", Thanks dave, I will reimburse you the shipping now that I have your return address of the shipping package. While down at Arkstoc (in a car but it was a Honda ) I got anxious to see if the fuel pump had arrived at the house, it had so I left early this morning and returned home to test it out.

Pulled the old pump assembly, nothing amiss upon inspection of interior of lower tank or exterior of old pump assembly and associated plumbing, The rubber boot holding the pot scrubber in place was pretty brittle and a few pieces broke/cracked while wrestling it off. I have piece parts on order but have not heard back from Ron Ayers so something or all may be back ordered (packing,crush washers,main tank hose clamps all required per the manual)

Swapped out the old motor with the new old motor, put it all back together far enough to test using old parts on hand, put my 2 gallons of gas in it cycles the key several times and each time had normal operation of the FI light and fuel pump noise. Was pretty sure this was going to be the fix for on the bench old motor +12 v = no noise, no spin, new old motor + 12 v =noise ,spin.

Having cycled the key a few times I guess any fuel pressures had built up and no leaks are present so I guess it is safe to try to start it. By the way I don't know how much the lower tank holds but it holds at least 2 gallons for when you remove the fuel return hose there is no flow and if there's fuel in the upper tank you will have gravity flow from the return line as that is how I initially drained the upper tank. At any rate hit the start button and and it fired up and ran fine after about 4 seconds of cranking. Tomorrow I will add another two gallons to the upper tank after I move it from the garage to the shed and and check for gravity leaks while I keep an eye on it for a while.

I am assuming the fuel system is pressurised, how much I am clueless but it can not be much. If it was going to leak it I would have thought it would have with initial key on but because the tank joint hose seems to be a weak link I will try to be through about leaks, I mean it's only gasoline

So Initial thought was fuel pump, no noise bad pump but because of codes, mice, relays, sensors and not knowing what I was doing and what I perceive as a less than simple fuel system I chased my tail for a day.

One day it something works next day it does not with no apparent reason. I do intend to try to get inside the old broken fuel pump just because.

Thanks you all for ideals suggestions and especially Dave (dduelin) for the parts

Glad you got it figured out and got the bike back up and running. Now go take a nice ride.