Digital SLR Preferences, Questions, and Confusion

SHORT STORY VERSION:

1. Do you use Nikon, Canon, Sony or...?
2. Full view SLR/Processor, or 1.X sized processor?
3. Favorite Lens?

LONG STORY VERSION:

After my 2007 Iron Butt ride, I slowly trekked all up and down the Rockies and decided then and there, I was going to return to SLR cameras. I haven't regretted that, and have learned to love lugging the thing around. Interchangeable lenses are worth the effort. After months of research, I landed on the Olympus E-3 SLR with their 4/3 SWD lenses. I'm still using this camera today, and have invested heavily in their really nice lenses. The 4/3 System was brilliant, and the reduced size made the E-3 a fantastic motorcycling SLR since it packed so nicely and was rugged as all heck.

Well, my E-3 is almost as old as my ST, and I need to upgrade. Ordinarily, you invest in good lenses, and upgrade the cheaper component - the camera. Unfortunately, Olympus has pulled out of the 4/3 game and the only use for my precious lenses is to adapt them to micro 4/3 and I hate using adapters. I'm really upset about this, and feel like I got ripped off. So, here I am: starting all over again.

I have an open field to look into. So far, the Canon 6D is on top of my list with the Nikon D600 competing for my interest. I'm leaning towards the Full-View processors simply because I feel that's the direction it will go anyhow even though the vast majority of cameras and lenses are still the 1.X sized processors. I'm thinking long-term investment.

I'm looking to see what SLR you use, what you love most about it and why you'd recommend it, and what lens you favor.

I bought a Canon XS several years ago because it was light, relatively small and accepted any of Canon's DSLR lenses. A comparable Nikon at the time would have been fine, although I found the menus more logical on the Canon so I went with Canon for ease of use. The XS worked great for three years and then one day showed a BUSY message in the display. No amount of fiddling with battery, lens or SD card would fix it. The BUSY error was a known issue on the user forums, so I sent the body back to Canon for repair (out of warranty). They sent me back a new XSi (an upgrade) including a new kit lens and a spare battery, all at no charge. It has worked flawlessly for several years.

The kit lens is 18-55mm, which is short enough for some wide-angle effect. My accessory lens is a Canon EFS 55-250, which I bought for long range zoom capability in a light, compact form factor. Those two lenses have provided me with options for most scenes I have encountered.

I have carried this camera and lenses in a proper camera case on my bikes for probably 75,000 miles traveled. The camera did crap out once but Canon took care of me even outside of warranty. I'd buy another Canon. Probably can't go wrong with a Nikon.

Canon for me. Been that way for many years, at least since the late 80's.

I liked their lenses more then the Nikon was what got me started there, well that and the whisper quiet belt drive of the 35mm Elan.
I'm on a T2i these days, wish I would have spent a few more dollars for the T3i with the foldout screen. That is a really handy feature on occasion.

Would like to move up to a full frame but the bank won't allow it. When I do all my lenses will come with me and work fine just like they did on the 35mm.

My 2 most used lenses are the 24-105L and the nifty fifty, just a fast 50mm. But when using the 50 you realize the limitations of the cropped sensor.
I could use a faster wide angle in the kit, just haven't found one in my price point I like.
On the Canon lenses, you do get what you pay for, the L line is generally worth it.

Canon -vs- Nikon, both are great.

Bones said:

The camera did crap out once but Canon took care of me even outside of warranty. I'd buy another Canon. Probably can't go wrong with a Nikon.

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This is important to here. When I bought my old Olympus, it was one of the few SLRs available that was weather/dust sealed. That was a huge sell for me, but now a days, most SLRs have this feature.

As a roving reporter, your input is valuable and relevant!

T_C said:

My 2 most used lenses are the 24-105L and the nifty fifty, just a fast 50mm. But when using the 50 you realize the limitations of the cropped sensor.

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A fast 50mm will be my first lens, eventually. It's the most practical lens on the planet. Your observation on the cropped sensor here is good.

Womantriker and I both use Nikons. We both have a D7000, she has a D5100 as back up, I have a D80 for back up. We have a vast assortment of lens. The newest and biggest is an 80-400. I am anxiously awaiting the delivery of the new D750. Once in hand, I will have my trusty D80 and 3 lens for sale. 18-55, 18-200, and 70-300. All for $400.00.

PS... I also carry a smaller Canon point-n-shoot. One ofg the A-lines, a 650IS. If you load the CHDK software on it you can do all types of spiffy things. With the filter works for infrared photography.

Another nice thing that I have taken advantage of, the Canon trade-in program.

EASt said:

When I bought my old Olympus, it was one of the few SLRs available that was weather/dust sealed.

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Oh yeah... forgot.
The majority of the Canon L line of lenses is weather sealed, some of the upper line SLR bodies are too.

EASt said:

So far, the Canon 6D is on top of my list with the Nikon D600 competing for my interest. I'm leaning towards the Full-View processors simply because I feel that's the direction it will go anyhow even though the vast majority of cameras and lenses are still the 1.X sized processors.

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sensor fabrication costs have kept the cost of full-frame sensors fairly high, and that's not likely to change significantly over the years. Since the area of the sensor can't change, its difficult to reduce the cost, unlike typical digital devices which can be shrunk in area to reduce cost as smaller fabrication geometries are developed. So its not likely that full frame will eclipse the crop sensors in popularity over the years, but it is true that they will produce a lower noise image in low light conditions.

Another consideration is lens options. Full frame coverage lenses tend to be higher quality, more expensive, and cover narrower focal ranges than the crop frame alternatives. I'm more familiar with Canon's lens lineup than Nikon's, so I'm basing that comment on Canon. With a crop body you can get lenses that cover 18-200mm and even 18-300mm in a single lens, and the lenses in general will cost less because they're designed to be consumer quality. On a full frame body you're going to be looking at something like 24-105mm or even 24-70mm and need a second lens for anything longer. The full frame lenses tend to be professional quality, but there are some consumer versions available too. If you prefer to use only one lens, then the crop bodies have that advantage, or if 105mm is as long as you'll ever need, then you could get by with one lens on a full-frame as well. I think Nikon has a 24-120mm full frame lens.

Nikon vs. Canon is an ergonomics choice, you'll have to hold and operate both to see if you have a preference. Nikon has a bit more flexible firmware, but I don't know how meaningful that really is to any particular user. Nikon also has a common lens mount, Canon has EF for full frame and EF-S for crop. Full frame will fit on the crop bodies, but the crop lenses won't fit on the full frame bodies. Nikon full frame allows you to mount a crop lens and put the camera into a crop mode, so if you upgrade from crop to full frame your old lenses would still work as before. Canon requires you to repurchase lenses if you do that same upgrade.

bottom line though is if you go with the 6D and 24-105mm lens that would be a very good combo.

The family bought me a birthday present a couple of years ago, a Nikon D5100 kit from Costco, as my first DSLR. They had noted I was missing the abilities of my old SLR cameras.
I had been looking and saving my pennies and hadn't decided on the camera mfg or lenses; but, a gift is a gift!

I have since purchased a prime 35mm (crop factor makes it a 50mmg equivalent) and an 18mm to 300mm (27mm to 400mm equivalent) and rarely use the kit lens any longer.

I have been looking at going full frame; but, as noted the cost of replacing lenses and body is steep.

dwalby said:

Nikon full frame allows you to mount a crop lens and put the camera into a crop mode,

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I haven't heard that this is possible, could you elaborate or point me to some where to learn about it?

Thanks,
Mark

Mark said:

I haven't heard that this is possible, could you elaborate or point me to some where to learn about it?

Thanks,
Mark

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google "Nikon full frame crop mode" or "Nikon FX crop mode" and you should be able to find it.

Ken Rockwell writes reviews for Canon and Nikon cameras and tells how he does cropping with FX cameras.

Thanks both of you.

I just got back from searching that string and found Ken's site.
I guess I'll do some more reading.

Now back to the OP discussion.
Hope this hijack didn't offend...

Mark

Agree with all of the above.....you buy into a system....so choose wisely when you decide which brand to get....I've used Canon for years, and find I use the latest version Rebel bodies as much as I do my 5D MkII....the prosumer bodies (Rebel, now upto T5i I think) have the latest technology and processors that I think Canon uses as a test bench for their more expensive bodies....the Rebels are 1.6x sensors versus the full frame in the 5D...that has it's advantages because my 70-200 2.8 L lens becomes a 100-320 on the Rebel body...downside is the 16-35 is not as wide...use that on the 5D...full sensor....if you do not buy the EF-S lenses the regular mount lenses work on both bodies....depends hugely on how much money you wish to spend....test drive them thoroughly and see which system you prefer...........have fun...........ff

T_C said:

If you load the CHDK software on it you can do all types of spiffy things. With the filter works for infrared photography.

Another nice thing that I have taken advantage of, the Canon trade-in program.

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I have CHDK on an old A series Canon. It's super fun, but not all that reliable a thing. What's with the trade-in program? Has it been around forever or is it a limited thing?

dwalby's incredible response was very insightful, and I can see that Nikon is doing a great job of preventing "forced obsolesence" that's so common these days (read: Apple). This is definitely a point of consideration. Although I'm leaning Canon right now, I can't get over that rear function-dial and having to use a lock switch to prevent my aperture from accidentally changing. I much prefer a thumb wheel as Nikon uses. However, Nikon seems to have so many more external buttons to contend with than Canon. I'm not sure if that's good or bad yet.

Mark said:

Thanks both of you.

I just got back from searching that string and found Ken's site.
I guess I'll do some more reading.

Now back to the OP discussion.
Hope this hijack didn't offend...

Mark

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Heck no! I learned something that's worth considering in my "system selection" list.

I also use a Canon T5I. I love the menu layout, it couldn't be easier even with touchscreen. I carry the base 18-55, 22-250 and have a 50MMf1.2 I love the play around with. Now with HD video from these cameras you really can do no wrong. I think Canon lacks in the video autofocus because of the mirror but they appear to me to have the sharpest image and deepest color video.

EASt said:

Unfortunately, Olympus has pulled out of the 4/3 game and the only use for my precious lenses is to adapt them to micro 4/3 and I hate using adapters. I'm really upset about this, and feel like I got ripped off.

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I guess I don't see what the big deal is about using an adapter if all of the features of the lenses carry through. Screw it onto a Micro 4/3 body, leave it there and attach your 4/3 lenses to the adapter. Problem solved.

Everybody got out of 4/3 because the prices of F- and EF-mount SLRs were coming down enough to be competitive. Nikon and Canon would have crushed the 4/3 market and the system would have died entirely. Micro 4/3 allows for smaller bodies that can compete with higher-end point-and-shoot models.

Your choices are the cost of a new Micro 4/3 body plus an adapter vs. a whole new system. If you're trying to get more out of the investment you've made in 4/3 glass, changing systems isn't going to get you there and will cost a whole lot more.

I'm leaning towards the Full-View processors simply because I feel that's the direction it will go anyhow even though the vast majority of cameras and lenses are still the 1.X sized processors.

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If you mean full-frame vs. cropped sensors, cropped-frame sensors are an aberration in a world that's been full-frame since 135 was introduced in the 1920s. If you want to buy lenses that will last over the long haul, make sure they're full-frame and buy bodies that will work with them. Cropped-frame lenses exist largely because they don't have to be optically good over as much area and therefore don't cost as much to make.


All that said, the answer to your questions are Nikon, cropped sensor (I like the extra reach when shooting tele), and first-generation 70-200 f/2.8 VR (one of the best lenses Nikon's ever made).

--Mark

EASt said:

I have CHDK on an old A series Canon. It's super fun, but not all that reliable a thing. What's with the trade-in program? Has it been around forever or is it a limited thing?

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I never had a problem with my CHDK. But since it is all aftemarket hacks, it could be the one for your particular camera is a different version. Have you check to see if there is a more updated hack for yours? Also, how are you loading it? I use mine on a SD card with the write switch thrown to protect.

As far as the trade-in program. No, it's not limited. Canon cause it the Canon Loyalty Program. You trade in an old Canon camera (out of warranty) and they give you a chunk of change off of something from their refurb store. Call 1 (866) 443-8002 for full assistance. The web page of what is in the refurb store is linked here.

Blrfl said:

cropped sensor (I like the extra reach when shooting tele)

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I find this confuses so many newbies when it is said this way.

There is no extra reach, just less of the same reach fills the frame.
A 200mm lens is 200mm, approx 4x magnification. With a cropped sensor you are just only seeing 70% of the available field of view.

If you are going to start a new SLR I would say pick either one based on cost and ergonomics. When I started off I chose Canon as at that time they had a fantastic affordable sensor in the EOS 20D. The lens selection for Canon was also unparalleled (although Nikon optics are a notch better IMHO). Now I have too much invested in lenses to make the switch. I still use a crop sensor with the EOS 7D. I currently shoot sports and portraits for friends and family and am happy with the crop sensor. I only have one EF-S crop lens. I own a few "L" lenses that I picked up used. I'm still hoping to graduate to a reasonably priced full frame offering when I can dedicate more time to landscape photography
I would caution you against spending much time on reading lens MTF charts and sensor resolution tests. There is more to photography than raw specs. Have fun
--Ram