Trouble Rebuilding engine. advise needed

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Oct 15, 2014
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Hi all

Ill try and explain this in the best way I can.

I have a 2000 ST1100, currently rebuilding engine due to a shot piston ring.

Crank case assembled with new bearings and piston rings, cylinder head also installed. Had trouble with one of the valves sticking but got that sorted now.

To make things easier I'm looking at the timing belt head on. My Current issue is with the left side cylinder head. indicated in the picture attached.

before I installed the Cam shafts, I could manually rotate the crank with no issues. but after installing the cam shafts on the left side (which is actually the right cylinder head). I can only turn the crank less than half a rotation before it seizes.

It can be seen from the indicator marks on the timing how far it actually turns before seizing.

The engine does not have the gearbox installed.

The Timing is correctly aligned with all the notches in the correct position. and the cam shafts correctly placed (RH.IN) on the inside nearer the carburettor side and (RH.EX) on the outside. with the notches facing out.

Ive, checked the valves on the cylinder head and non seem to be sticking. yet as soon as install the cam shafts, the crank won't turn more than a third rotation.

As a last ditched effort to try and figure out if it was the cam shafts causing the issue. I temporarily installed the same ones in the other head, yet they seem to work fine on that side as the crank turns with no issues,
which leaves me to think that its the head itself causing the issue. Bearing in mind that the troublesome head had no cams installed when crank was rotating smoothly.

I can't see it being the pistons or the new rings either as they are running smoothly when cams are not installed.

If anyone could give me any suggestions, it would be a big help. Also if you need any information please let me know.


Many thanks
 

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ST1100Y

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Sounds like piston crown/s contacting open valves before TDC... bad...

Do you work with/by the original ST1100 workshop manual?

The in your photo shown position of cam pulleys does not correspond with the drawing in my w/shop manual (page 8-13)!!

I try to explain:
RHS head:
each cam mark pointing outward, flat with edge of head
arrow on pulley (and punchmark on rim of pulley) aligned with the tip/nose on the top/outer belt case

LHS head:
as above

crank pulley:
The one shown on your pic doesn't seem right! You cannot see the "sprockets" from the front (possible installed reversed?), normally a black, flat front with the TDC markings as follows:
the "lonesome" punch mark is at level with the tip on the LHS of case (horizontally at the 0300 o'clock position, when looking at it from the front)
The first | of the [T|F|1] aligned with the small triangle/arrow on the front wall of the case (can be seen at 1030 o'clock position when looking at the engine like in your photo)
(the [T|F|4] marking does not come into play for "zeroing" the engine parts there)

This is how I aligned everything during 3 t/belt replacements, worked flawless...
 
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OP
OP
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Thank you ST1100Y,

You were completely right in saying that the timing was completely off in the image that I posted. It was.

You have to remember that I'd taken the image after many attempts to resolve the issue of the seizing crank. This however was not causing the main issue.

Although, you were a big help giving me the advice that the piston crowns were contacting the valves before the top dead center.

This made me think that when I'd got the Cylinder heads polished, that they might have gone a bit over board. So as an experiment I tried to add the old packing gasket on top of the new one to try and add just that few millimetres of extra distance between the head and the cylinders.

What do you know, this completely worked and the crank was turning as as smooth as I could have ever hoped for.

Got a friend to help fit the engine back to the bike. Going to crack on with the rest of the build tomorrow. let you know how it goes.

Just want you to know how much I appreciate you getting back to me and setting me on the right track.

Many thanks
 

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Joined
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Thank you ST1100Y,
I tried to add the old packing gasket on top of the new one to try and add just that few millimetres of extra distance between the head and the cylinders.

What do you know, this completely worked and the crank was turning as as smooth as I could have ever hoped for.

You aren't going to be running two head gaskets stacked on top of each other, are you? That was always a bad idea in the automotive engine world, I can't imagine it being a good idea here.
 
OP
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Hi Jason,

Apart from buying a new Cylinder head, I don't see another solution.

I'm going to the polishing shop tomorrow, but I doubt they will accept any responsibility for the issue.

at least I know what is causing the problem now. If you could advise on a safer solution, I would be most appreciative.

Cheers
 

ST1100Y

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This made me think that when I'd got the Cylinder heads polished, that they might have gone a bit over board. So as an experiment I tried to add the old packing gasket on top of the new one to try and add just that few millimetres of extra distance between the head and the cylinders.
Dunno if stacked head-gaskets will turn out reliable...

And you're still missing the black disk on the crank sided belt pulley??!
Without it in place you won't get that base set-up ever...
 
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I agree with Martin's comment about your needing the part with the crankshaft reference marking on it before going much further. You need to be able to determine your crankshaft reference point to get the timing lined up properly with the two cam sprockets, and without that reference mark I don't know how easy that will be. Its possible at this point you still have incorrect timing, but the thicker gasket has mitigated the piston interference caused by the incorrect timing. Until you can determine the crankshaft punch mark timing reference point I wouldn't assume that lack of piston contact means that you have correct timing established.

I'm also skeptical that a simple head polishing would have changed the head dimensions enough to require the double gasket thickness to avoid piston/valve contact. If they milled the head then that's a different story, but you use the term polishing so I don't think you're talking about a milled head.
 
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I'm gonna agree with Dwalby, doubt just polishing the head surface would take off enough to cause a problem. Best guess is you had something misaligned on the initial go and got it right later. Tho the ST is an interference engine, it's not that tight in there. Best luck and keep us poSTed.
 
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What does a valve clearance check show you? Maybe you need to go to thinner shims under the buckets. Either way, two head gaskets are not going to work for long.
 

ST1100Y

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I'm also skeptical that a simple head polishing would have changed the head dimensions enough to require the double gasket thickness to avoid piston/valve contact.
I agree on this, after all has the SC26 engine only a 1:10 compression ratio, so unlikely a piston crest would interfere with a closed valve...
 
OP
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Dear all,

Thank you all for your support and guidance,

It has been nearly a year since I have posted.

Updates: finally realised that I had no bloody idea what I was doing and that following the manual with no prior experience was a task too much to do alone.

I had nearly written the whole thing off and left her for months in the dark naked and alone. I felt so ashamed.

I put everything back together and sent the whole thing to the honda garage to do an overhaul properly.

Turns out that that the new sleeves I had installed in the heads were completely off and due to my lack of experience, I failed to notice this.

They got new sleeves installed and got the beast running again, I pick her up tomorrow. Can't wait.

Thanks again to everyone who tried to help.

Happy Ending
 
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