Rode to work this morning. Bike won't start to go home

Rode to work this morning. Bike won't start to go home. Solved?

I rode in this morning and the 97 started quick and eager like it usually does. I went out to start it to go home and the motor made about 1 1/2 revolutions and stopped. It acts like there's not enough current to roll it over. I had a coworker give me a jump from his truck and it would click and attempt to turn over but wouldn't. The headlights are bright with the ignition so it looks like I have have lots of volts but no amps. I thought bad battery and pulled it out and went to AutoZone for a new one. They checked it out and it tests okay, still good voltage and tests out at 183 (out of 200) cranking amps. I put it back in and attempted a bump start but no joy. I put it in gear and rocked it back and forth a few times to see if the starter gear might be hung up but this had no effect.

Autozone thinks a bad starter. I could feel the jumper cable on the positive battery terminal on my bike begin to get warm, not hot, during the jump attempt. I did not feel the starter relay getting hot either, maybe warmed up a bit but not hot. Amps were going somewhere but the starter motor wasn't getting the job done. When I get it in the garage I'll start checking relay connections and wires for corrosion and stuff.

Next step would be to pull the tank, remove the starter and have it checked? Any ideas?

Eagle59 said:

Autozone thinks a bad starter. When I get it in the garage I'll start checking relay connections and wires for corrosion and stuff.

Next step would be to pull the tank, remove the starter and have it checked? Any ideas?

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Yeah, there's a few things in the path that can corrode, so best to check them first. I've never had the problem myself (knock on wood) so I can't give you the list of steps but they're probably the things you already plan on checking. Others will chime in shortly with the list.

The one thing I did want to mention is look at both of the wires that connect to the battery and make sure there's no corrosion getting inside the wire strands next to the crimped terminal. Sometimes you can get that battery corrosion stuff inside the spaces between all the small strands of wire and it creates enough resistance to create a big voltage drop when trying to start the bike. Had that happen to me years ago with a car, and it wasn't really obvious because it had worked its way in where the wire was mostly covered with insulation, so I had to pry back the insulator a bit to see it. If everything else in the path checks out OK you may want to look a little closer at those wires.

First make sure that all connections are clean of corrosion and are tight.

How old is the battery?? Hondas require a good battery to start and run. If one cell is bad it's no go even with a jump start. Before you yank the starter, try a known good battery.

Rayjoe

The only other suggestion I have is to rock the kill switch on the handle bars several times. I had this issue when mine went into the shop for service in the spring. Rode in, wouldn't start after tires and brakes replaced.

Traced to kill switch. Rocking switch numerous times got it fired again, just by happenstance-not that we thought it was the problem. No issues since.

Best of luck.

Mikedo said:

The only other suggestion I have is to rock the kill switch on the handle bars several times. I had this issue when mine went into the shop for service in the spring. Rode in, wouldn't start after tires and brakes replaced.

Traced to kill switch. Rocking switch numerous times got it fired again, just by happenstance-not that we thought it was the problem. No issues since.

Best of luck.

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If the starter solenoid is energizing ( he said it turned over a few turns ) , it shouldn't be the kill switch.

rayjoe said:

How old is the battery?? Hondas require a good battery to start and run. If one cell is bad it's no go even with a jump start. Before you yank the starter, try a known good battery.

Rayjoe

Click to expand...

He said Auto Zone checked the battery .......

Eagle59 said:

Snip .....

Autozone thinks a bad starter. I could feel the jumper cable on the positive battery terminal on my bike begin to get warm, not hot, during the jump attempt. I did not feel the starter relay getting hot either, maybe warmed up a bit but not hot. Amps were going somewhere but the starter motor wasn't getting the job done. When I get it in the garage I'll start checking relay connections and wires for corrosion and stuff.

Next step would be to pull the tank, remove the starter and have it checked? Any ideas?

Click to expand...

Not a bad idea to have the starter checked, after you check for bad connections and corrosion, etc. An auto electric shop should be able to do that.

You could have a high resistance starter solenoid, too. To check, measure the voltage drop between the positive terminal of the battery and the terminal on the starter WITH the starter solenoid energized ( starter switch depressed ) - shouldn't be more than a volt. or so.

You could also run a MC jumper cable directly from the positive battery terminal to the starter terminal to bypass the solenoid and to find out if it turns over much faster.

I have a spare starter I bought off EBay, just in case. A good $25 investment, I think. If I hadn't dropped my insurance, I would ride over to Dewitt with it.

Just thought I'd mention the excellent troubleshooting guide in the Honda Service Manual.

John

I got the bike into my Father-in-Law's shop. Nice big workshop with heated floor. it beats my crowded garage! I first tried the jumper from the positive battery terminal straight to the starter motor positive terminal on the relay. Same results, it seems like there wasn't enough amps to turn over the engine. The battery seems to have lots of juice in it yet but It could be that I've run it down just enough through all this messing around that it is low now. I'll put in on a charger this after noon while I work on other tests. I managed to pull the starter and it seems okay but I have not had it tested yet. If I connect it directly to the battery it spins vigorously. If I manually rotate the shaft and stick my ear next to the motor I can hear what probably is the sound of the brushes rubbing. I don't know what is normal or what it should do. It's a bit stiff but it turns okay. I'll probably take it in to a shop to get a good test.

I have the starter relay out and there was a bit of corrosion on the 4 low voltage connectors. I've got that cleaned up and I'll try re-assembling tonight. I'll also do a voltage drop check J.V. mentions above on the relay. I think the next step is to pull the plugs and manually roll the engine over with a wrench to make sure it's not locked up.

Looks like you are on the right track to sort this out, keep us posted on what you find.

I wonder if the engine itself rotates freely... chances that a corroded 40A stator locks the rotor thus seizes the engine?
What happens if you remove the spark-plugs, but it in 4th gear and give it a "bump start"?

I tried a "Bump start" before resorting to the trailer. I used 3rd gear but there wasn't really a good hill to get a good run at it. We tried to tow the ST up to speed behind a co-workers truck but that was not a good scene. Almost wrapped the tow strap up in the front wheel. I did not want to have a "You Tube" moment so called it off. I hate putting my bike on a trailer on the bike's terms. That's just not right!

I'm hoping to verify the freely turning engine this evening by pulling/inspecting the plugs and putting a wrench on the timing gear. Maybe just putting it in gear and attempting to turn the rear wheel while in gear is all I need to verify.

Eagle59 said:

Maybe just putting it in gear and attempting to turn the rear wheel while in gear is all I need to verify.

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Yep, put a high gear in (bit of a fumble with the engine off, will need to rock the bike back and forth), place it on main-stand, remove the spark plugs, and turn the rear wheel (forward of course ;-) )

The Kewpie Doll goes to J. Van and those who guessed the starter relay. I got to the shop this afternoon and pulled the plugs. They came loose surprisingly easily. Not finger-tight but not very firmly tightened in there. They looked good though. Put the trans in 4th gear and was able to rotate the rear tire/motor as expected (Whew!). I had the battery on the charger while doing this and it had a full charge when I put it back in to test voltages. I metered the back side of the starter relay and hit the starter button. Meter shows 9 or so volts! 12.4 volts on the front side, much less than that on the back side. Sometimes it would hit 12 but definitely not getting full volts to the starter.

I took the relay to the work bench and started metering contacts. I have a 2A variable power supply and I was able to put 12 volts on the coil. It closed the relay with a solid clack, same as when I tested it on the bike. While I had the coil energized I was checking the other contacts and voltages. All of a sudden the relay started buzzing. It got a bit warm too. It appears the windings may be breaking down or there may be some corrosion internally. I don?t have the factory manual (I have the Haynes book) but I?m pretty sure the relay coil is supposed to get 12 volts from the starter button. The 12v coil impedance is 3.9 ohms so that appears about right. Looks like I?ll be ordering a new relay.

Well we are glad you have pinned down the problem on the ST and we hope you can find a replacement soon. Best of luck.

Good that its such a simple fix. A new starter relays will come for a few bucks...