Has Sport Touring gone ADV?

I'm not saying you can't ride a ADV coast-coast, cos a lot of guys do. In my part of the country not many places you can ride off road. But if I'm gonna do that locally, I'd get what use to call a "rat bike" (meaning a used dirt bike that ya don't care if you drop 20x). Taking a 15,000 dollar ride and beating it up runs counter to my upbringing. But I'm the guy with a bike with over 100k miles that looks like it came off the showroom floor 6 months ago.

I'm pretty much a poser. I got an ADV bike but the bigger ones are not really ADV bikes as I see it. They do have some extra ground clearance and fork travel along with spoked wheels which make them good for taking off road but a true off-roader they aren't. Some with much more experience and skill will try, and some without lol... But not me. I got it because I could put the bags I wanted on it and it was lighter and he ergos were good for me. Also, if I need to explore a non-paved surface I can do so with a bit more confidence than taking a touring bike down it. If Honda had brought the Crosstourer over I would probably have one so I'm not sure why they are waiting on that... A lighter ST would be nice but not sure it would end up being the same ST experience.

Not sure what Honda has in store for us in the future, I don't think they've forgotten the segment, they are just concentrating on the more profitable segments/demographics. Can't blame them, it's the right way to run a business.

I do admit, the only off roading I do is dirt roads stuff.....if I'm gonna do extreme off roading I would go for something a lot lighter than an Explorer.....

True!

That's where the Tiger 800 XC starts to look real tempting! Or even a 650 Wee or the rumored Yammy Mini-Tenere (based on the FZ-09 bike)!

And before me miss out on it, the KLR 650 would probably be the best value ADV/dual sport/tourer! I'm not sure how much "sport" it has in it, but that's a true MC for all purposes.

DaveM said:

I do admit, the only off roading I do is dirt roads stuff.....if I'm gonna do extreme off roading I would go for something a lot lighter than an Explorer.....

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There is no lack of grey haired riders on ADVrider. If you've looked at the prices of the best selling 'adventure' bikes, it's obvious you need some disposable income to afford them.

I have ridden my adventure bike across the country. After a 2 month ride in South America, I shipped my KTM950 Super Enduro to Miami and rode it home to southern California in 4 days in February. I think that ride convinced me again that I needed a sport touring bike, hence my purchase of an ST1300.

My take is that if you can only afford one motorcycle, an 'adventure' bike is the most versatile. It can go across the country on pavement but you won't enjoy that trip as much as you would on the ST. I ride mostly in the west and frequently stealth camp after dark as I hate to pay for a hotel for a few hours of sleep. I sure miss the KTM when searching out stealth campsites on the ST.

Fortunately I can afford more than one motorcycle so I have the ST for pavement, the 950SE for combo rides, and a KTM400XC for dirt only. I can't imagine not owning an ADV bike.

BamaRider said:

I'm not saying you can't ride a ADV coast-coast, cos a lot of guys do. In my part of the country not many places you can ride off road. But if I'm gonna do that locally, I'd get what use to call a "rat bike" (meaning a used dirt bike that ya don't care if you drop 20x). Taking a 15,000 dollar ride and beating it up runs counter to my upbringing. But I'm the guy with a bike with over 100k miles that looks like it came off the showroom floor 6 months ago.

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I don't think many at all adventure tourer riders are riding hard core off road riding deep in the sand, rocks, mud sort of dirt bike riding. Maybe we did that growing up on 100 or 250cc enduros but like has been said already it's just nice to be able to keep going when the pavement ends or to explore unpaved sections of decently maintained roads or trails either close to your home or a thousand miles away from home. This year at the Blue Ridge Gathering I found some nice hard packed dirt and gravel roads just off of 215 between the BRP and 64 to the south. This picture was taken on one of those roads and I was just plonking on my NC700X with street tires. Ridden at a safe pace 40 mph through the woods is as much fun railing the curves on 215.

I started on dirt bikes, then moved to dual-sports to make things a little more street friendly. A 650 class dual-sport (DR, KLR etc) is a beautiful thing: small enough to be useful off-road, big enough to cross a few states to get to it. The "Adventure" bikes tho have sort of morphed into touring bikes in drag, I mean really; a 700 lb., 100 hp shaft drive bike for off-road? I see a lot of GSA's when I travel out west, rarely in the dirt tho. If distance is your goal there really are better options. Personally, I think dual-sports are less the new ST and more the new standard. For a while there you either went insect-looking sport bike or fully chromed cruiser. Adventure bikes were the among the few larger mounts with fully upright seating ergo's.

I gave up a V-Strom 650 to get the ST1300. It was fully kitted out, bags etc. I had many great tours on that bike. But at the end of the day the St offers much better comfort for me and my wife, wind protection, power, etc. How many times did I take my Strom off road? Zero. I got it because it was cheap and light. Looking at the reality of the kind of riding I actually do, not the kind I want to present to others I do, the ST or other full size bike performs better. People complain about Honda not updating the ST. I don't care. I bought used, for cheap. If I want to pay $20,000 for a bike I can, but why?
How many people buy great huge SUV's which never see a gravel road?

I just can't see doing this on a sport touring bike.

I've looked at ADV blikes, but they're too tall. My 98 ST is my limit. ( I just made a shorter saddle, much better.). Also, ADV bikes have a higher CofG, and shorter range. I rode the Denali Hwy on the ST, and it was awesome! I also ride two up all the time.
Fuel economy, low C of G, 7 gallon tank, regular gas, and now lower seat. ADVantage, 98 ST1100.

cruiser58 said:

I just can't see doing this on a sport touring bike.

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How about on a FJR?

mailmanrob said:

I gave up a V-Strom 650 to get the ST1300. It was fully kitted out, bags etc. I had many great tours on that bike. But at the end of the day the St offers much better comfort for me and my wife, wind protection, power, etc. How many times did I take my Strom off road? Zero. I got it because it was cheap and light. Looking at the reality of the kind of riding I actually do, not the kind I want to present to others I do, the ST or other full size bike performs better. People complain about Honda not updating the ST. I don't care. I bought used, for cheap. If I want to pay $20,000 for a bike I can, but why?
How many people buy great huge SUV's which never see a gravel road?

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My thoughts as well. I suspect very few actually take their ADV bikes where an ST can not go.

I have owned 3 SUVs ....over 400k in miles....might have driven a total of 200 miles in 4WD....and probably not needed for most of the 200.

But hey...if somebody wants an ADV more power to them! I prefer the pavement and comfort...my 250 Elsinor days are over[emoji30] .

cruiser58 said:

I just can't see doing this on a sport touring bike.

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How about on an ST11?

mailmanrob said:

How many people buy great huge SUV's which never see a gravel road?

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Yep, seems you nailed it there...
Its merely a trend, a fashion movement created by advertisement...
I see so many GS, Katies and others with big, squarish aluminium-containers bolted on, just strolling through the city, mounted by folks wearing loafers, tie and suit...
Them rigs look like fresh from the showroom floor, not a scratch, not a single spot of dirt...
Same then on the RTE routes in close proximity to the city, now in spotless, expensive gore-stitches, price tags still on (indeed often to be seen on the soles of their boots :lol: )...

Far out on the true motorcycle routes you then meet the few real ones, and there very few...
Them rigs look worn, scratched, dirtied, stickers all over them, their two piece stitches bleached and frayed...
And their nice and sociable, acknowledging the big old tourer, crusted with insects and road dirt as "one of their own breed", spinning profound conversations about where we came, where we heading and what riding is about...

ST1100Y said:

.....
Far out on the true motorcycle routes you then meet the few real ones, and there very few...
Them rigs look worn, scratched, dirtied, stickers all over them, their two piece stitches bleached and frayed...
And their nice and sociable, acknowledging the big old tourer, crusted with insects and road dirt as "one of their own breed", spinning profound conversations about where we came, where we heading and what riding is about...

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And at a gathering such as you describe, how much talk concerns WHAT bike is ridden?
For those riders, the important and interesting and memorable details are where they were, the route to get there, how they nearly didn't get back and characters they met along the way.
It doesn't matter a hoot what bike they rode to do it.

Just now surfed into this thread and for some reason I feel compelled to offer up my 2 cents. Ive been riding an ST11 since 2002 but bought a one owner 2011 R1200 GS about a year and a half ago. (And yes, the final drive is still intact) After reading through this thread I don't think there is a wrong answer here. Some of the reasons I got the GS were that I wanted something different, wanted something that would go down the occasional unimproved road that I might encounter as well as other rideable (for me) off pavement opportunities that I couldn't travel on the ST, wanted something lighter, wanted something more nimble than the ST, and my main bullet point for making a change was that I needed something that was more ergonomically agreeable with me as I was never able to get the ST ergos perfectly dialed in to suit me. Over the years the ST was starting to take a bit of a toll on me, especially after long days in the saddle. The GS has checked all those boxes. As for off big time off roading, no, I don't ever see me doing that but that was not part of my intent when I got the GS. It can be done on the GS but I think serious off roading is as much or more about the rider than it is about the bike. It was not my specific intent to get a BMW, the GS just wound up on the short list and after checking out the bikes on my short list the GS came out on top. I even surprised myself when it worked out that way. I was very interested in the Tenere at the time but some of the engine characteristics gave me some reservation about touring on it. However, sounds like Yamaha has addressed the engine characteristics on the current version of the Tenere that I couldn't quite get used to on the previous generation. If I was in the market today theres a good chance the Tenere would be the winner for me.

Bottom line, I think 'ride what you like for whatever reason' is a statement that is a truism as much as it is a cliche. For me the GS is a blast to ride. It corners as if its on rails and I certainly enjoy how nimble it is compared to the ST and the ergos are a lot more agreeable with me. As for the touring perspective of adventure bikes, for my purposes I tend to think of adventure bikes as touring bikes with some off road capability and not so much as a predominantly off road bike that you can tour on.

I recall a cross country ride back in 2004 or was it 05? Anyways, I was east bound on U.S. 50 near Fallon, when I passed a loooong dirt road pointing south. Sign said there was some kind of fault line 6 miles away. I stopped to take a look. I much wanted to ride that way and check it out. Though the surface looked good, I couldn't know what I would find further down the road. I was on my 04 ST, fully loaded. A U turn on a loaded ST is tricky even on pavement but on gravel? And if the surface turned bad how would I turn it around? What if I did drop it? I can't get the bike up by myself, and it could be days before anybody came along. So I had to let it go, and pushed on east. It was on of the few times a unimproved road beckoned me. I don't get enough of those calls to warrant a ADV bike, but if I did, I'd buy one.

Maybe one day I'll get back there and see where it goes to. Or maybe one of y'all with a GS will find it, check it out and send me a report.

ChucksKLRST said:

I think I have finally found the correct combination of bikes to have in the stable for where I live.
Lighter sport touring bike with plenty of pep for the long intercontinental runs (FJR1300 with electronic cruse and heated grips), Light weight sub liter ADV machine to canyon carve the local Colorado Rocky paved roads and hit the dirt county roads (Wee650), and a good size dual sport to do the 4 wheel drive passes and get home on pavement before it gets dark (DR650)

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Chuck is so awesome.

BamaRider said:

I recall a cross country ride back in 2004 or was it 05? Anyways, I was east bound on U.S. 50 near Fallon, when I passed a loooong dirt road pointing south. Sign said there was some kind of fault line 6 miles away. I stopped to take a look. I much wanted to ride that way and check it out. Though the surface looked good, I couldn't know what I would find further down the road. I was on my 04 ST, fully loaded. A U turn on a loaded ST is tricky even on pavement but on gravel? And if the surface turned bad how would I turn it around? What if I did drop it? I can't get the bike up by myself, and it could be days before anybody came along. So I had to let it go, and pushed on east. It was on of the few times a unimproved road beckoned me. I don't get enough of those calls to warrant a ADV bike, but if I did, I'd buy one.

Maybe one day I'll get back there and see where it goes to. Or maybe one of y'all with a GS will find it, check it out and send me a report.

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Who needs an ADV bike when you have Google.. LOL!!

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.2867959,-118.1301236,3a,75y,194.96h,88.63t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sJJuygHotMajDnvlxN4n2TA!2e0

http://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/states/events/1954_12_16.php

I think riders like adventure bikes for reasons similar to why drivers like SUVs. They're comfortable, look rugged, and offer more capability with road surfaces than a standard bike or car.

People like ADV bikes...that's why they buy them. It wouldn't surprise me if my ST gets replaced by an ADV bike at some point.