Rear brakes binding only when hot

Joined
Dec 16, 2010
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33
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Ireland
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2005 ST1300
Hey folks

I recently carried out a full rebuild of my front and rear calliper and the secondary master cylinder and everything was working fine. I have just replaced the rear brake pads on my 1300 with aftermarket pads and now they are binding slightly when they are hot. I don't have this problem when they are cold and the wheel spins freely. I have checked the secondary master cylinder and it is working perfectly.

My questions are :

1. Is it the aftermarket pads as opposed to genuine Honda? And why do they work for some people and not for others?

2. I noticed the two rubber boots that cover the sliding pins are loose/free at one end, are they supposed to be secured at both ends. I have repacked the boots with silicone anyway.

3. When the bike is moving and everything is hot I can hear the pads rubbing against the disc, yet when I push the brake pedal this rubbing goes away. I have taken out and re seated the pads a number of times properly, is this happening because they are aftermarket pads?

I am planning to buy a new pad retaining bolt and genuine Honda pads in the hope that this will alleviate my problem, can any of you good folk suggest or offer advice to check anything else, and answer the above questions.

As always your help is greatly appreciated.

I might have to fly igofar aka Larry to Ireland for a visit to get to the bottom of this problem :)

Thanks
Dub 24
 
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Mike I haven't noticed any difference in dragging noise with EBC vs oem but my ears aren't the best and I use ear plugs have you?.

Ping Larry if he hasn't already sniffed this thread out LOL.
 

970mike

Mike Brown
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Mike I haven't noticed any difference in dragging noise with EBC vs oem but my ears aren't the best and I use ear plugs have you?.

Ping Larry if he hasn't already sniffed this thread out LOL.
I have run both EBC and OEM pads with no problems, some like Larry say they have seen numerous problems with the EBC pads.
 

Reginald

cyclepoke
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My EBC pads rubbed more when new. They look thicker than OEM pads. After the "newness" wore off they were fine. I never experienced my rear brake getting so hot I couldn't touch them though (unless practicing emergency stops). I've already bought OEM pads for replacement this winter.
 
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Sorry for the late reply....was washing brake fluid off my hands....
In a nutshell....as said I would use oem pads...aftermarket ebc etc do not have the white heat shield and fitment may be an issue ymmv.
Also....do not use spray cleaner on the calipers as it may cause seals to swell etc.
Check to make sure the spring clip is seated and the pad on the I side is square behind the tabs...good flush and bleed yada yada yada...
Sounds like you already figured out what to do. Keep us posted on update.
I would love to visit your side of the pond!
 

970mike

Mike Brown
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Sorry for the late reply....was washing brake fluid off my hands....
In a nutshell....as said I would use oem pads...aftermarket ebc etc do not have the white heat shield and fitment may be an issue ymmv.
Also....do not use spray cleaner on the calipers as it may cause seals to swell etc.
Check to make sure the spring clip is seated and the pad on the I side is square behind the tabs...good flush and bleed yada yada yada...
Sounds like you already figured out what to do. Keep us posted on update.
I would love to visit your side of the pond!
Well I thought you were out having pie with that slow response!! :D
 
OP
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Thanks folks for all the replies

I really appreciate it. Just one thing about the rubber boot sliders I can't remember how I fixed / attached them into place earlier this year could somebody refresh my memory please .
Thanks
Dub 24
 
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I'm quite sure the rubber boots are necked down and the fall into a circular machined out groove, just like an O-ring groove.
If they are contaminated, they will swell up and not seat. You may need new ones if they are.
 
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I fitted ebc rear pads a few weeks ago and haven't had any problems with them. keep an eye out for Irishstoc next year.
 
OP
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Hey folks

Thanks for all the replies I really appreciate it. So to date I have removed the calliper replaced the rubber boots on the slider pins as they were like wizards sleeves. I replaced the pads with originals and also replaced the pad retaining bolts in case it was causing any problems. I rode the bike home this morning from work and when I got onto the motorway I stopped the bike and checked the rear disc and it was fairly hot. I then rode home all the way ( 20 odd miles ) without using the brakes and when I came to my off ramp I came up it and coasted to a stop eventually. The disc was warm and the wheel seemed to be binding a small bit but I can still get the rear wheel to spin by hand just over one revolution Is this normal ?

I am also planning to remove the calliper again and check the center piston isn't sticking, as on thinking about it I didn't have to push that one back to replace the pads could that be the problem ?

I have contacted another forum user to see if I could meet up and perhaps and compare wheels so to speak.

At this stage Larry aka igofar could be flying to Ireland to make a house call.


I am also planning to do another bleed of the circuit just to rule that out.

I will keep you all up to date with my on going saga

Thanks
Dub 24
 
Last edited:

970mike

Mike Brown
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Well we hope you get this problem figured out soon, can't be to much left that could be causing the problem.
 
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One thing I would do would be to pop the rubber boot off of you SMC and see if there is any corrosion in the bore. If the SMC piston is not fully extended or moving freely, this will block the fluid from returning the rear master cylinder though the compensating port.
Here is a quote from the ST1300 shop manual:

Troubleshooting Brake drag

• Contaminated brake pad/disc
• Misaligned wheel
• Badly worn brake pad/disc
• Warped/deformed brake disc
• Caliper not sliding properly
• Clogged/restricted fluid passage
• Sticking caliper piston
• Improper (SMC) secondary master cylinder push rod length (rear brake)
• Faulty proportional control valve (rear brake)
 
OP
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Mike Jim Al gully

Thanks for your replies.

A tilt of the SMC is definitely on the cards, the last time myself and my mate did a full bleed not only did we purge air via the proportional valve with the brake pedal, we also followed one of the other forum members advice and activated the SMC plunger as well in alternating sequence. I replaced the whole innards of the SMC with all new parts only a few months ago but will give it a good going over anyway.


Is there anyway of checking the proportional control valve ?

Thanks

dub 24
 
OP
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Hey folks

Just to you give you an update. I pulled the pads this morning and removed the heat shields just to see if this would make any difference and I then headed off for a spin on the back roads so I would be on and off the brakes:poPoST1: . I stopped after twenty minutes or so to check the disc and wheel and while the disc was hot the wheel spun freely for 1.5 revolutions. I did the same thing again when I got home and had the exact same result. I hope this is an end to my problem as it would be the easiest fix I could ask for.

However the true test will be when I head to work on Tuesday morning as I will be on the motorway for 20 odd miles and then filtering through traffic for the remaining 5 to 6 miles. I will keep you all posted as to how I get on but for the moment thanks to you all for your help, advice, and encouragement.

Thanks
Dub 24
 
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I would have to disagree with that fix, as your not fixing the problem, but removing a piece of the puzzle and masking the real issue. The heat shields are put there for a reason, to keep that heat from transferring into the caliber and cooking the fluid. .02
I would bleed the system correctly using a motion pro or similar check valve tool, and tilt the smc and tap it a couple times during the bleed of that circuit etc. Clean and grease the sliding dowels, grease the needle bearings, and head of the pivot bolt. Then strap down the lever(s) overnight and check it in the morning. Don't use any spray cleaner near pistols as I may cause the seals to swell etc. Did you take apart ALL the calipers and clean behind the seals with a wood or plastic pick? You may have a ring of dirt back behind there binding things up.
I just went out and pushed my rear tire with my foot and got almost three full turns...and I have all my parts in place.
Good luck and keep us posted.
 
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OP
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Thanks Larry for your reply.

I guess you are right and have got me thinking. I just greased the sider pins and on the rebuild a few months ago I put in all new seals on the pistons and cleaned out all the grooves. I greased the needle bearings and the pivot bolt when replacing all the parts in the SMC.

When I check the SMC I can get it to move about 2mm and it stops the rear wheel dead, and on releasing it the rear wheel spins freely.

I am going to do another bleed ( which I'm dreading )

But I want to check a couple of things with you first.

1 When I bled the PCV the last time I tilted the SMC and I would first push home the SMC plunger and then my mate would push down on the rear brake pedal, is there any need to do this or should I just use the pedal and tap the SMC ?

2 I just want to double check the sequence you use .

After the SMC Is it the rear centre or ( rear outer the one nearest the pad retaining bolt ) or vice versa, which do you find works best?

Thanks as always for all your help and patience

Dub 24
 
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I had a similar issue a long time ago on my ST1100, turned out to be air in the system. I just did a complete flush on my ST1300 following the shop manual and it worked great. I can definitely spin the wheel fairly easily by hand. Best wishes
 
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