Buy a ST in Europe or ship mine?

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Anyone have any experience shipping their bike to Europe? Or buying one there and then selling it when done? I have rented in Italy for 3 weeks and could almost have bought a bike for what it cost, hence my question. As retirement looms, I am stoked about the idea of riding around Europe for 4 - 6 months but am not sure about the ins and outs of buying a motorcycle in Europe and leaving it there for multipule trips. Shipping mine would mean I wouldn't have a bike when at home in Alberta. If anyone could share their experiences with me, I would be most grateful. I have an 08, which replaced my 03 after I crashed it with 200K kms on it. And I even have my wife on board with this plan! Thanks.
 

CYYJ

Michael
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Hi Bill:

I have shipped my ST 1100 back and forth between Canada and Europe several times. The last time I shipped it (2008), I just left it there... I store it at a Honda dealer when I am not using it.

Back when I was actively shipping the bike back and forth (2002 - 2008), it cost me about $2,500 to ship it one way. I used Motorcycle Express, and had it shipped by Air Transat. Most of the time, I went along on the same aircraft. The actual air freight fee was about $2,000, the other $500 consisted of surcharges imposed by the air freight warehouses at each end. Even if I picked the bike up an hour after the plane landed, I still had to pay a day's storage.

So, to do a round trip for your bike, the total cost is going to be about $5K. That assumes you ship out of Toronto or Montreal into Paris or Frankfurt. You might be able to ship out of YYC or YEG if Air Transat runs widebody aircraft out of Alberta.

The import process is pretty simple - the customs folks in Europe just want proof that you own it and that it is insured for use in Europe. Its actually more troublesome bringing it back into Canada, because the Canadian customs people are not used to the idea of a Canadian bike returning to Canada by air.

Once the bike is in Europe, the only person who can ride it is you. If you loan it to a European friend, or another Canadian, you run the risk of being fined for illegally importing a bike, which results in a very substantial customs penalty (thousands of dollars - ask me how I know).

Insurance (liability only, it's impossible to get full coverage) is cheap and easily available, about $100 a month.

For what you have stated you want to do - a one-time ride between 3 and 6 months in duration - I think you would be better off buying a used ST in Europe and then selling it back to the same dealer when you are finished. I'm pretty sure you could get a season's use out of any bike older than about 3 years old for less than $5K, including insurance. A co-operative dealer would leave the bike registered in their own name for the time you plan to use it.

I think that is kind of similar to what Rod has suggested in his post above.

In my case, I got tired of shipping the bike back and forth at $5K a pop. But, because I go to Europe every summer, I want to have a bike there, so, I just left the thing there. I suppose I will eventually bring it back - I can't sell it in Europe without spending a lot of money to homogulate the lighting, etc. to meet European standards, and of course, paying import duties.

Michael
 

drrod

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Bill,
Michael is correct in that the guy in Ireland will not only sell you the bike, ready to ride, but you can also sell it back to him at the end of your trip or he will store it for you until you come the next time.
From what I understand, he will find a bike for you, check it out, buy it on your behalf, and have it ready when you arrive. He will also do this for a bike that you find on your own, on the net.
Several people have used him and all were very happy from what I can tell.
I am planning an extended time in Europe myself and will almost certainly use his service rather than shipping my bike.
Rod
 
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I have shipped bikes to and from Europe over the last 25 years many times.
Have a 07 ABS 20K miles in Heidelberg now. This bike is for sale.
Registered in Washington state, not current. Not necessary.
Insurance is purchased annually from ADAC.
Let me know if you are interested.
This could be a great buy for you.
 
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I hope George see's this thread.I remember he and some friends are planning a European trip and he was inquiring about this very issue,well done that man in Cork.
 

CYYJ

Michael
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A word of advice for North Americans planning to go riding in Europe on a bike that has European plates on it:

It is ESSENTIAL that you have a GPS device that provides warning of speed camera locations. In Europe, it is rare (compared to North America) for police to have stationary radar traps, or to pull drivers over for speeding based on speed they have observed while driving their police car, but there are fixed radar cameras everywhere. Tickets are issued to the registered owner of the vehicle, and the tolerance for excess speed is quite low (about 3 MPH / 5 km/h).

If you don't have a GPS that gives you advance warning of fixed speed camera locations, and you are not familiar with the neighborhood, you could easily collect quite a few tickets (= thousands of dollars of tickets) in a day.

Personally, I use a Garmin GPS that provides 'proximity alerts' and I subscribe to the SCDB (Speed Camera Data Base) published by Eifrig Media in Germany (here is the link: http://www.scdb.info/en/ ). I have used that database for over 10 years and I think it is the most comprehensive one. It costs about $15 a year to subscribe, you can then download updates as often as you wish (the publisher recommends downloading and installing an update weekly).

Europe is a great place, no criticisms in that respect, you just have to be aware that they take a different approach to speed limit enforcement. It's all done by fixed camera, not 'in person'.

Michael
 
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But done get caught in France with speed camera warning software. They don't like it.


Sent by Peter from His IThingy.
 

CYYJ

Michael
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But done get caught in France with speed camera warning software. They don't like it.
Naw, that's not really a concern at all. To comply with the letter of the law, you can specify that your SCDB database download should display the French cameras as "danger zones", rather than as precisely accurate camera locations. If you do that, you will get a warning approximately 2 km (1.4 miles) prior to the camera.

Because the French authorities insist that they only install cameras to promote road safety (cough-cough), the French judiciary has upheld that it is only right and proper that the citizens should be able to keep track of where these 'dangerous' areas are.

In practice, though, I don't bother fudging the locations like that... I just download the accurate locations, and load them into the GPS. If I am travelling at or under the speed limit, what possible reason could a Flic have to stop me?

There is one other rather unusual legal requirement for motorcyclists in France, and that is that it is required to have a white reflective strip on the rear and each side of the helmet. My understanding, from talking to motards in France, is that the police rarely ever enforce this requirement on the locals, let alone a tourist from overseas. But, for those who wish to comply (it causes no harm to comply), the proper size stickers are generally available free of charge at any motorcycle dealer in France. Or, you can make your own and put them on the helmet before you travel.

All helmets must have four reflective stickers: one on the front, one at the rear and one on each side. The surface of each sticker must be 18 cm2 and, within each sticker, you must be able to draw a 40 mm diameter circle, or a 12.50 cm2 rectangle with a minimum of 20 mm length, as shown below.

Michael

 

Attachments

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Hello everyone,
Just to share with you my experience as a local biker (from France) and in addition to all that has been said.
-speed regulation and control : don't use radar detector, it's totally forbidden and very dangerous to be kept with it.
Fortunately, you may use a legal (or at least not forbidden) system as "Waze" on your mobile, which is very efficient for radar, traffic jam, accident...and its free !
As Mick said, controls are frequent, but automatic so you will not see that you were.
-helmets : honestly, I don't think you will be arrest for a lack of stickers.
Since I have my driving license, I've been maybe ten times controlled by a cop, and I don't remember the last ...
To summarize, the main problem is with speed regulation control which has been deeply "improved" since 2002 (thanks to our previous President, M.Sarkozy! )
This is a true nightmare for us, especially on highway, large road and in the city (this last case is because its very easy to be overpeeding but not "racing")
As a conclusion, try to use twisty roads !
 

CYYJ

Michael
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As a conclusion, try to use twisty roads !
Even better, try to do all your riding on the 'Departmental' roads, which are shown on the map with a 'D' in front of the road number.

Not only are these by far the most enjoyable roads, and the twistiest, there are few (if any) police or cameras on these roads, and you will see the very best of France if you stay on the D roads. The French motorways are almost all toll roads - quite expensive - and they are even more boring than American Interstate roads.

Michael
 

ST1100Y

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...don't use radar detector, it's totally forbidden and very dangerous to be kept with it.
And a US unit will most likely not even work over here anyway... it'll yelp at every automatic shop- and hotel door, but likely remain silent on the stationary speed-cams... different frequencies/systems plus the fact the EC speed-cams track you from behind, right after having passed them...
(Only Germany uses small, mobile speed-trap units that clock and photograph you head on, as they have a kinda weird justice system in which the authorities need a photographic ID of the actual driver, and not only license plate/holder of the vehicle...)
Fix installed speed-cams are not so much of a concern for me, as their pretty visible... beyond that are there actually signs posted, "warning" that you're entering an enforced speed limit zone... a paradox though... ;-)
IIRC are there like 5 different camera designs used in France (the N4 is kinda loaded with them), so the unaware might not instantly identify them right away...
On dual-carriageways the cams are sometimes located on the shoulder of the oncoming lanes, but once you got accustomed to also look on the far left, you'll also spot those well in time...
(incidentally tripped one on my way to Paris this September, but still no priority mail from the French Gendarmes... must have been a "banality" then (I usually keep my +<10kph margin), not worth pursuing it...)

So more of a "trouble" are unmarked police cars and/or manned ambushes, with their hand-held LIDAR guns... they clock you face on and are often ingeniously hidden...
But, those are active near the end of a quarterly, and mostly dormant the rest of the time... so... ;-)



-helmets : honestly, I don't think you will be arrest for a lack of stickers.
Doubt so too, besides that ATGATT has reflective patches woven in on strategic places (can't use flash photography on riders in gear, as those 3M threads overload every digital cam...)

As a conclusion, try to use twisty roads !
Concur totally...
There so many beautiful B-, C- and D-roads avail, that you won't like to ride on the boring nationals anyway...
 
OP
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Thanks everyone. Great advice. Our trip is a ways off yet, but this is helpful. From my personal experience with Italy, we rode through many traffic cameras and didn't get any tickets, and I know we were over the limit. Many of them had the lens spray painted by the locals. Minus 30 here this morning, so riding is just a dream..
 

CYYJ

Michael
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...From my personal experience with Italy, we rode through many traffic cameras and didn't get any tickets, and I know we were over the limit.
Driving culture does vary amongst countries in Europe.

In Germany, a stop sign is an obligation. In France, it is a recommendation. In Italy, it is a decoration.

Remember, once you are south of the Alps or the Pyrenees, you are in the third world. :)

Michael
 

ST1100Y

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In Germany, a stop sign is an obligation. In France, it is a recommendation. In Italy, it is a decoration.
LOL! That pretty much nails it... :lol:

But its also food for thoughts, as it attests/proofs that the folks from France, Italy, Spain, etc... are more alert and seemingly also more competent to deal with their unique fast, dense, sometimes skittish, but generally fluently moving traffic...
Whist the people in the so called "western world" are so obedient/addled, that they've discarded any common sense, yet rather get confused & lost without a proper regulation stuck up their nose...
And as by-product have they grown ignorant, bigoted, uncooperative and generally obdurate...
 
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Critters

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Even better, try to do all your riding on the 'Departmental' roads, which are shown on the map with a 'D' in front of the road number.

Not only are these by far the most enjoyable roads, and the twistiest, there are few (if any) police or cameras on these roads, and you will see the very best of France if you stay on the D roads. The French motorways are almost all toll roads - quite expensive - and they are even more boring than American Interstate roads.

Michael
While these roads are more enjoyable the French have an uncanny knack of putting their "safety cameras on twisty sections of road, I stayed on D roads between Chamonix and Geneva and I think we went past 4 or 5 cameras located on some corners of some of the best roads I had ridden on so sensible speeds are recommended.
 
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i.ll give you another option, buy one here in the UK and i,ve spare room in my garage you could store it in for a very low monthly charge (?20.... secure and checked daily) and a favour............. if you live permanently state side/ canada ......I need someone over there finding me good 2nd hand st1100 alternators/generators (40 amp).I need a "friend"/contact over there willing to help me.....

im 40 miles north of London near the motorway....... i will even pick you up from the airport and take you to your bike...we've hotel on doorstep as well

interested then youll have to pm me or phone me on +441234767675......nigel
 
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