Steering Head Bearing Torque question

Joined
Aug 9, 2010
Messages
292
Location
Vernon BC Canada
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09 ST1300
I considered OEM ball bearings but I knew I could easily set up tapered bearings and wasn't sure I could accurately set up the caged ball bearings which are more fussy than tapered so I went with tapered rollers.
Yup tell me about it lol. Between conflicting service manual info/misinfo and putting the top brace and bars/forks/torquing top nut, my preload keeps getting tighter. Got frustrated and stopped for the night, now I'm thinking that I will do 18 ft lbs, back off, then to 11. then I will install the lockwasher and locknut barely finger tight with the tabs lined up. I have a feeling this is where I may have been going wrong as I tightened that locknut too snugly and that allowed the top yoke nut to add preload when torqued. I had 3lbs of pull force on the forks before bearing replacement now I just have to get back to that.
 
Joined
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292
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Vernon BC Canada
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09 ST1300
Eureka! I think I finally got it. Upon careful examination and paying attention to how the factory set it up when I took it apart, I noticed that the upper locknut was looseafter taking off the top bridge. Underneath that, the lockwasher was still keeping it captive. the inside fingers of the lockwasher are purposely bent down toward the adjusting nut to set a tension against the locknut when it is spun down onto it. The factory washer had not squashed the tabs flat, so there was tiny spaced between locknut and adjusting nut. When I was putting new one together I ran that locknut down to my version of finger tight which meant that I had already flattened the tabs on the new washer and then when I added the 90 degrees to index the locking tab, had removed the space between locknut and adjuster. This is not apparent until the top yoke is torqued and that load transfers to bear on the upper locknut, pushing it down somewhat. If there is no tiny space between the two to take up this slight movement, it ends up dramatically increasing the preload. So I got a new lockwasher, oiled threads,tightened adjuster as per my manual to 18 ft lbs, backed off, torqued to 22 ft lbs. installed new washer and ran locknut down until it just starts to bear down on the lockwasher, then went the 90 degrees to align the lock tabs and bend them up. Installed and torqued top yoke to 76 ft lbs. Preload is now perfect at 2.5 lbs pull both ways with everything assembled. I took a pic of the original washer to give a visual on what I mean. I sure hope this helps anyone else that might be tackling this.

Steering stem lock.jpg
 
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Medina, Tennessee
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375
The OEM driven spline bearings that go bad so soon are Japanese bearings. Maybe Chinese ones would last longer.
My experience is Chinese bearings are a crap shoot, Japanese consistently good, so my $ goes with Japanese or made in USA bearings.
 
Joined
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09 ST1300
My experience is Chinese bearings are a crap shoot, Japanese consistently good, so my $ goes with Japanese or made in USA bearings.
+1 I purposely go out of my way to try and purchase either made in USA or Japan bearings, and that goes for most other items too lol, getting increasingly harder to find however.

I would also add that my stock bearings had such a tiny amount of pasty, crusty grease on them from the factory that I'll bet if had taken apart and repacked them years ago they may still be fine...
 
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Paris, TN
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'99 ST1100
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8606
this might help if replacing with tapered bearings--video shows correct way to fit and tighten
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQHu3t-0QEA
Thanks for posting this video. The forks on my new-to-me 2001 ST1100A moved when I checked them by pulling fore and aft. I dropped the steering stem slightly to verify that the P.O. had installed tapered roller bearings and then I used the method in the video to set the preload. Tighten the adjusting nut to remove all play and then tighten the lock nut 90 degrees past finger tight. Worked like a charm!
 
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8659
Thanks for posting this video. The forks on my new-to-me 2001 ST1100A moved when I checked them by pulling fore and aft. I dropped the steering stem slightly to verify that the P.O. had installed tapered roller bearings and then I used the method in the video to set the preload. Tighten the adjusting nut to remove all play and then tighten the lock nut 90 degrees past finger tight. Worked like a charm!
anytime
 
Joined
May 12, 2016
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34
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Wisconsin
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1998 ST1100
My "lock nut" was loose on my bike (just like in the video), and it got me thinking... what if this middle "lock nut" is not a lock nut to the tension/adjustment nut?
Why would they have a washer with locking tabs, between two lock nuts?
Why would you set tension with one nut, then jam another nut on top of it, changing the tension...

Here is my theory...

You set the tension, with the tension/adjuster nut.
Turn the lock nut down to the tension nut, then back off 45 or 90 degrees, and lock the tabs in (This theoretically leaves a small gap between the two nuts).
Now, when you mount the top triple clamp (Fork top bridge), the top nut/washer locks the triple clamp to the middle "lock-nut".
With these two being locked together, the tab washer keeps the tension nut from turning and loosening.
The small gap between the lower and middle nuts, isolates the bearing tension from being altered by the top triple clamp nut.

I realize this is 180 degree thinking from the norm, but I just had to throw it out there. I am not japanese, so I am only guessing
 
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Hi, it's a long time ago but question about IGOFAR post #33 , I applied your advice "shortcut at post #33" to adjust the pre-load force but as not enough space to remove the lock nut , i just turned the adjusting nut (thus involving the rotation of the lock nut at the same rate) using a screw driver in the notch until I got the good preload.
Do you think the fact the locking nut rotated at the same time, but not strictly according this one should be adjusted according the SM, could be a problem ?
Thanks
 
Joined
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soCal
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'97 ST1100
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687
Do you think the fact the locking nut rotated at the same time, but not strictly according this one should be adjusted according the SM, could be a problem ?
very unlikely. I'm of the opinion that this procedure is best done by feel and test rides rather than using some torque spec in the manual. As jfheath mentioned in his reply its pretty easy to tell when its too tight or too loose, there's a fairly narrow range in the middle where its "just right". Too tight makes the steering very slow, too loose introduces noticeable clicking from the free play.

the fact that both nuts moved together as a pair when you tightened it suggests its possible that they could eventually loosen up as a pair as well, so keep an eye on it.
 
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SC
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9020
Best simple advice I got for steering head bearings was to think of them like the old front wheel bearings on a car - tight enough there is no wobble, loose enough the wheel (handlebars) will turn freely. ;-)
That was what I was thinking Phil. if its tight, loosen it, if its loose tighten it! I dont think his problem is the steering head.
Lets Ride!
 
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Many thanks to all for your advises specially jfheath, very useful for everybody that want to change the steering bearings, I understood all the theory but I forgot to mention in my post that I asked the question because I was proceeding to the control of the adjustment of the tight after running something like 1500 miles after changing and setting new tapered bearings, I had at this time proceeded like jfheath and others on this forum advise.
This time even if I didn't feel it was too tight or slack (no slack or over roll) it seemed to me once the front wheel is up it was too easy to turn the wheel and when checking with a spring scale I was effectively closer to the low value of the gap specified by the SM ie close to 1.6kg (3.5lbt)
It's the reason I used the shortcut described by Igofar to avoid disassembling the handle bars and so on...
Doing that I just retighted the adjusting nut and as i din't unply the tabs of the lockwasher that make the adjusting nut and the locwasher joined together, when I tighted the adjusting nut of course the locknut turned the same.
Of course it's not very conventional but if it can avoid a lot of time and if Igofar proceeded the same way without noticing years later some trouble with his shortcup it would comfort me.
 

Pacificcoaster

former PC800 Pilot
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Jan 7, 2008
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VANDALIA, OH
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Honda ST1300A
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7590
32mm.
Do yourself a favor, return the OEM bearings and go with the CBR Bearings tapered kit. Why CBR? They use first rate, Japanese bearings. All Balls uses Chinese in some of their kits.
Why tapered? More surface contact and last longer.
Get yourself a set of bearing race drivers, makes the job a whole lot easier. Make sure, real sure, that the races are driven all the way into the stem.
If you use tapered, preload with 28 ft/lbs, back off to zero then torque to 31 inch/lbs. This worked fine for me. No play, very smooth.
Just caught this as I am working through 22,000 mile maintenance on my 2007 A. My calculations on your advice on the 2nd torque pass at 31-INCH pounds would equal 2.58-FOOT pounds of torque. That way below the 11-21 lbs/feet of torque most caged-ball bearing require and below the 21lbs/feet recommended for tapered roller bearings in a Gold Wing. One would think there is an easy to follow formula for caged-ball to tapered roller beating conversion. Sheesh!
 

Pacificcoaster

former PC800 Pilot
Joined
Jan 7, 2008
Messages
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Location
VANDALIA, OH
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Honda ST1300A
STOC #
7590
Just caught this as I am working through 22,000 mile maintenance on my 2007 A. My calculations on your advice on the 2nd torque pass at 31-INCH pounds would equal 2.58-FOOT pounds of torque. That way below the 11-21 lbs/feet of torque most caged-ball bearing require and below the 21lbs/feet recommended for tapered roller bearings in a Gold Wing. One would think there is an easy to follow formula for caged-ball to tapered roller beating conversion. Sheesh!
I followed both the 1978 Honda Taper Roller bearing adjusting procedure and Uncle Phil’s wheel bearing illustration. Got the adjusting nut to that perfect torque and set the locking washer with the locking nut to just tight and added another 90 degrees of locking washer clockwise turn to set the steering head bearings correctly. Then, added the top bridge and torqued to 76 lbs/ft. Already had the 4 lower triple tree pinch bolts torqued. Finished by torquing the 2 pinch bolts for the top bridge. Then, I re-installed my handlebars onto my Heli-Bar riser. With my new RaceTech front forks and rear shock, I have dialed in a plusher, more confidence-inspiring and predictable chassis for my 2007 ST 1300 ABS!
At about 120+ mph sustained with the windshield up any amount (at least that's what I found on the German Autobahn). It only did it after holding the speed, not just running up and back down. If the windshield was all the way down, no problem. I had time and miles to play, so I tried different settings/speed/etc. I figured it had something to do with aerodynamic lift as the front end started getting really light at those speeds after a while. No scientific proof, just my personal experience (and the ST1300 did have the Hondaline Trunk on it). ;-)
At about 120+ mph sustained with the windshield up any amount (at least that's what I found on the German Autobahn). It only did it after holding the speed, not just running up and back down. If the windshield was all the way down, no problem. I had time and miles to play, so I tried different settings/speed/etc. I figured it had something to do with aerodynamic lift as the front end started getting really light at those speeds after a while. No scientific proof, just my personal experience (and the ST1300 did have the Hondaline Trunk on it). ;-)
I’m in agreement with you, Uncle Phil. I have a Hondaline trunk that I sourced out of Belgium about 10 years back. I notice that 85 mph is about my comfort limit with the Hondaline trunk. And, that’s with the windshield all the way down for maximum FE down pressure. I’ve thought about increasing the layback angle of the windshield to increase down force with the windshield at a higher height. So, for now, I experimenting for effect.
 
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I'm reviving this thread because it's the top result for ST1300 tapered bearing steering stem nut torque.

I came across this Youtube video about 2001+ Goldwing steering stem adjustment. It appears to be similar to the ST1300, but the video is focused on aftermarket tapered roller bearings. Key points with timestamps:
  • How the "spring washer" (Honda calls it a lock washer) works and why it should be replaced each time (@3:55)
  • A digital torque wrench is recommended (@4:55)
  • The first top nut should be torqued to 21 ft-lbs (@5:48), definitely no more than 23 ft-lbs and no less than 20 ft-lbs
  • "Finger tighten" (using the Honda socket, so not really finger tightening!) the second top nut until the cone washer flattens, then back off until the tabs align (@6:30)
Instead of the expensive Honda steering stem nut socket, I'll be using a Unit Motorcycle Products P3210 steering stem wrench.
 

Pumper

I too will setup the front end, cough, my way. Please follow book procedure is the disclaimer. I think I align with post #6 in a few ways. My problem is how much multitasking I'm doing to this sitter right now. I did see the GL video and leave it to Honda to come up with some engineering on the spring washer. So, being this bike being a low miler, I'll see if there is a spring still at the 425-830. In other words, my lock washer should show a concave and not flat out flat, cough, reusable. With that said, you call the ball on me making a video with the 1100 I'm working on. I'm a one take no plan ahead. More like gorilla theatre and that disclaimer.

I want to see how close the forks are to the axle before I remove the front end? Never had the front end serviced so it's untouched. Book procedure wise, I will read the abstract as to it saying [without saying] ... 'when replacing fork lower bearing on triple, and the cups in the neck, home those 3 by a torque at this setting'... is the guess.

Therefore, I seem to get this slight knock once the initial setup, and know it's time to relube and eyeball for cup-to-ball dents. Cups so banged by that one ball taking the bumps and you now swing the forks and it stops in the center, rocking back and forth as it settles there in that indentation.

I'm not a professional so I more or less test to feel out the X to Y and kind of stop there. I more want to have the loosest fit on the ball to cup, this side of a knock. Doubt if I'm going to throw that much torque on the bearings with this bike. I setup my front ends this way:

1. Say I place both forks up the triples, set one to spec being flat even with the top crown on the 1100.
2. I use the top crown as the pinching of both forks. Or, I can use both lower pinch bolts.
3. Once I torque or hand torque the top crown, I don't want a forced bow; if as all pinch bolts were tight.
4. Therefore a static flat torque on the crown, let the forks be free on either end only.
5. I then bring the axle in so as to square the triple to the one floating leg. I can now torque all the pinch bolts on the one fork.
6. Not about to turn into a corner and one side feels normal, then pitch it over the other way and that side is sketchy in feel.

But that has to be exaggerated out of the top crown to have that kind of feel. So if it's that out of square, figured I micro inch it out this way. And I cannot say how/who sets up their front end square to the rear swing arm this way? But I too cannot predict if some walk is happening and maybe a square up might/might not help?





Signed,
NOLTT (no one listens to turtle) - North Shore movie quote
 
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Honda Service Manual Information Requested & help needed

Like the commercial says....what's in your wallet?...well what's in your service manual?
My service manual is OEM Honda 2003-2008
My bike is a 2007 ST1300A with 65K miles on it, recent complete service, TB sync, Valve Inspection, CB adjusted, and in perfect running condition (noticed I said running, and not riding)
Does anyone out there have the factory OEM manual for any other years?
I'm wondering if I may have a misprint (like that would ever happen :rofl1:)
I need anyone and everyone check their manuals and please post what the torque setting is for your steering head bearings.
My 2003 -2007 indicates 18lbf-ft, then back off, the set at 11lbf-ft, then 1/8 turn more.
Yet, the 2003 only manual lists 23 ft. lbs. only and does not list a lesser one.
And my manual indicates after 2007 to use 22 ft. lbs. as well
The bearing races and bearings appear to be the same part numbers, and I can't see anything that has changed etc.
If you have a moment, could you please check to see what your service manual says?
Please post year or year(s) on the cover, and what your torque specifications are.
Thank you so much for taking the time to assist me in this issue.
I've replaced just about everything I can think of, and I still am getting a "riding on marbles wiggle" that I've never had before.
Its got me spooked enough that I don't want to ride the bike until I get it sorted out.
I've ordered new tires, even though mine are just now starting to reach the wear bars on the rear, (Pirelli Angel GT's) and have a little over 10K on them.
So far I've replaced, inspected, or rebuilt the following in the last couple weeks:
New flange bearings - O-rings - dampeners
New brake pads - caliper seals - clips, and pins - all
Bled the entire brake system to my OCD specs!
Replaced the front wheel bearings (RKA - china bearings) My bad, it was on a Sunday night.
Replaced the steering head bearings and races - OEM parts - (this is the reason I need to double check the specs in your manuals)
Rebuilt the forks - sonic springs - 125mm spacers & oil level, 7wt oil - new bushings, slider bushing, inspected the damper units (they appear to be working as they should, and have no signs of wear etc.
Replaced the U-joint (helped solve the smoothness and snatch ) but still have the riding on ICE feeling when turning slowly.
Re-serviced the preload adjuster & fluid and checked the damping setting
Got the front sag about 1.5 inches, and the rear sag about the same.
I've just ordered more OEM wheel bearings for the front end, and a brand new SMC Assembly (just in case its grabbing and causing the shudder)
No signs of heat on any of the discs, all pads almost new, wearing evenly, no air in the system (including the SMC & PCV units)
When I replaced the U-joint, I inspected the swing arm bearings, races were like new, bearings turned smoothly, although very little grease on them, so I cleaned them, and repacked them with the best bearing grease available.
The rear wheel splines are in good shape etc.
The rear wheel bearings (wheel) are smooth and turn easily, with no rough spots etc.
Neither tire has excessive cupping or raised edges, (rear wheel just starting to get raised edges on outside sipes) but I've ridden worse and had no wiggle.
Tire pressures at 42-42 confirmed with several air pressure gauges.
I'm out of things to try? I'm hoping the steering head bearings are just loose causing this feeling etc.
I've raised the bike and pulled on the forks - no play, turned the wheel to full lock and held it with my foot and checked for sideways movement - none
So far the ONLY thing that I have felt is when inserting a finger in each side of the bearings, and having my wife spin the wheel slowly, I felt a bump every once and a while as the inside spacer was being moved around by the tip of my finger, once I ran the axle though the wheel I could not feel it again. The bearings are gently seated against the spacer correctly, and I was only able to feel it move the thickness of a paper index card, and the bearings were installed with proper tools, and do not appear to be side loaded, etc.
I'm at my wits end.....does anyone want to take a shot at it?
The ST Whisper is at a loss for words!
Igofar
I was washing today, and noticed that when washing the black plastic under the radiator, my knuckles were dragging on the tire. I don't remember doing that on the old bike, although I do remember that the tire clearance was tight. I measured, and there is 1" of clearance at the closest point (factory size roadsmart 3 with less than 2k miles, wheel straight, bike on center stand. If anyone has a minute, could they check that measurement on their bike next time in the garage?

Thanks! IMG_20230720_195439272.jpg
 
Last edited:
Joined
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its easy to check the tightness of the steering stem bearings, since you're suggesting the steering might feel a little loose to you. On center stand, jack the front wheel off the ground. Grab both fork lowers and try to rock them forward and back (in the direction the bike would travel). If they're loose, you'll feel a little clunking.

Moving them from side to side might also reveal clues about the squeaking you said you heard.
 

Andrew Shadow

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If anyone has a minute, could they check that measurement on their bike next time in the garage?
You quilted me in to checking for you. I saw this last night just before I was heading to bed but I was to tired to go out to the garage and check for you.
I was about to head to bed again tonight when this thread came up again and I saw that no one had replied to you, so I just went out out he garage and had a look. Mine measures the same as yours more or less- my tires are pretty much to the point where they need replacing.
 
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