Which Tapered Bearings and Torque Spec?

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I am going to go ahead and replace the steering head bearings in my '07 1300. It has just over 5k miles and really don't need to be replaced. However, I replaced the stock steering head ball bearings with the All Balls Racing tapered bearings in my VTX1300 and it greatly improved the handling of the bike. So, of course I was interested to install them in the new to me ST upon realizing the ST has the ball bearings. My thinking is that it couldn't hurt. Well, I have done some research with mixed findings on the bearings to use, All Balls vs CBR, and the torque on the steering stem adjustment nut. What I'm hoping to hear is the difference between the All Balls bearings vs the CBR bearings, the torque specs for tapered bearings, and where the torque spec came from. The reason I ask about the torque specs and where it came from is because the VTX1800 comes with tapered bearings stock and the Honda-recommended torque spec is 30 ftlbs on the steering stem adjustment nut.
 

dduelin

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Why? I had a VTX1300 and compared to an ST it handled like it had a hinge between the front and rear wheels. The ST1300 is totally different in design and spec and will hold its own with any sport tourer up to insane 8/10ths speeds. In my opinion there is nothing to be gained by replacing the caged ball bearings with tapered at 5,000 miles. Revisit this in 100,000 miles.
 
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Why? I had a VTX1300 and compared to an ST it handled like it had a hinge between the front and rear wheels. The ST1300 is totally different in design and spec and will hold its own with any sport tourer up to insane 8/10ths speeds. In my opinion there is nothing to be gained by replacing the caged ball bearings with tapered at 5,000 miles. Revisit this in 100,000 miles.
+1
I really don't think replacing these bearings at 5000 mi would be money well spent. As the saying goes, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it". Just MHO, FWIW.
 
OP
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Read this thread as it is talking about replacing with OEM, but torque values are talked about.
That thread is what prompted me to start this one. The tapered and ball bearings are worlds apart as far as the tolerable torque specs go. The plastic cage that the ball bearings are housed in can't take the amount of torque that the steel tapered bearings can.

Why? I had a VTX1300 and compared to an ST it handled like it had a hinge between the front and rear wheels. The ST1300 is totally different in design and spec and will hold its own with any sport tourer up to insane 8/10ths speeds. In my opinion there is nothing to be gained by replacing the caged ball bearings with tapered at 5,000 miles. Revisit this in 100,000 miles.
Im interested in replacing them because I would like the steering to be tighter. It feels too loose to me and I don't think the ball bearings can handle the torque I may put on it. I had the adjustment nut torqued to 35 on the VTX and it handled well for a nearly 900lb cruiser.
 
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You may want to speak to some folks at the bearing houses before you put tapered bearings in for the steering head application.
I was thinking about it, but then after much research, was shown that the tapered bearings are very good as wheel bearings, they are not so good as steering head bearings.
the larger Honda's (Goldwing's and St's) use the caged ball because it is a better design for that purpose.
.02
 
OP
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You may want to speak to some folks at the bearing houses before you put tapered bearings in for the steering head application.
I was thinking about it, but then after much research, was shown that the tapered bearings are very good as wheel bearings, they are not so good as steering head bearings.
the larger Honda's (Goldwing's and St's) use the caged ball because it is a better design for that purpose.
.02
That's interesting. If you still have a link or something, I would be interested in seeing what showed that the caged ball bearings are a better design for the steering head bearings. The question I still have is if the tapered are inferior as steering head bearings, then why would Honda install them as stock in all VTX1800's? I know the VTX has a greater degree of rake in comparison to the GL and ST, but I would be interested to see the math Honda used to dictate between using one style of bearing over the other.
 

dduelin

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That thread is what prompted me to start this one. The tapered and ball bearings are worlds apart as far as the tolerable torque specs go. The plastic cage that the ball bearings are housed in can't take the amount of torque that the steel tapered bearings can.



Im interested in replacing them because I would like the steering to be tighter. It feels too loose to me and I don't think the ball bearings can handle the torque I may put on it. I had the adjustment nut torqued to 35 on the VTX and it handled well for a nearly 900lb cruiser.
There is no plastic in the OEM caged ball bearings. They are all metal.

As far as steering effort or tightness of steering "feel" goes I suggest that is due to very basic design differences and not torque on the head bearings. The VTX enjoys a lazy 32 degrees of rake with its attendant long trail and then there is it's long wheelbase of nearly 66". The ST has a very steep rake of 26 degrees and a relatively short wheelbase that's 7" shorter. The ST steers very light and neutral for its heft. Crank down hard on the the head bearings and any monotrack vehicle will lose its ability to self-correct its path and become cranky and hard-mouthed in character.
 
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There is no plastic in the OEM caged ball bearings. They are all metal.

As far as steering effort or tightness of steering "feel" goes I suggest that is due to very basic design differences and not torque on the head bearings. The VTX enjoys a lazy 32 degrees of rake with its attendant long trail and then there is it's long wheelbase of nearly 66". The ST has a very steep rake of 26 degrees and a relatively short wheelbase that's 7" shorter. The ST steers very light and neutral for its heft. Crank down hard on the the head bearings and any monotrack vehicle will lose its ability to self-correct its path and become cranky and hard-mouthed in character.
The oem top steering head bearing Is made of some type of plastic or nylon.
 
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There is no plastic in the OEM caged ball bearings. They are all metal.

As far as steering effort or tightness of steering "feel" goes I suggest that is due to very basic design differences and not torque on the head bearings. The VTX enjoys a lazy 32 degrees of rake with its attendant long trail and then there is it's long wheelbase of nearly 66". The ST has a very steep rake of 26 degrees and a relatively short wheelbase that's 7" shorter. The ST steers very light and neutral for its heft. Crank down hard on the the head bearings and any monotrack vehicle will lose its ability to self-correct its path and become cranky and hard-mouthed in character.
The oem cage for the ball bearings in the VTX are a plastic of some sort. I assumed the same would be true for ST.

That is a very good point about the design difference. I know that comparing the VTX to the ST is apples to oranges, and I had never thought of the steering effort to be attributed to the design rather than the torque on the steering head.
 

dduelin

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The oem top steering head bearing Is made of some type of plastic or nylon.
I don't remember any plastic at all in the original bearings but if you and battles06 both say there is then I plead a senior moment as I did this job over 50,000 miles ago.

As an aside, after replacing with tapered bearings my bike lost the tendency to exhibit the Pan Weave over 115 mph. It used to do it once in a while but after the bearing R & R it virtually disappeared.
 

acedantinne

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I don't remember any plastic at all in the original bearings but if you and battles06 both say there is then I plead a senior moment as I did this job over 50,000 miles ago.

As an aside, after replacing with tapered bearings my bike lost the tendency to exhibit the Pan Weave over 115 mph. It used to do it once in a while but after the bearing R & R it virtually disappeared.
Dave, the top cage is made of plastic. The bottom is metal. 04 st1300.
I just replace my steering bearings with the All Balls taper. As per what I was shown, have the final adjustment made with someone sitting on the bike. So, the weight of the bike,rider.
 
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