Oh no.......sat too long, won't start....now what

My beloved ST1300A (06) sat for two years in storage. I started it occasionally, but about a year ago the battery died and I haven't started it during that time. I kept a full tank of gas in it to protect the tank from rusting (successfuly). I did not put Stabil in it. I am giving up the storage space, so bought a new battery, drained all the old gas out (I think), put about 1/3 gallon of new gas in, and tried starting it. The starter turned it over til the battery died, but it would not fire. I am going back tomorrow with another gallon of gas. The fuel gauge was flashing at me, so maybe I didn't put enough gas in. Taking two charged batteries with me.

In the meantime I called Honda of Hollywood and spoke to service (they just happened to be one open today....I always start calling service departments all over, ours here is not good, to see what they say). Guy there seemed sharp. Said the fuel pumps get clogged, listen to see if the fuel pump does anything. And could be clogged injectors. I don't want to think about the prices he quoted, but he sounded like the injectors can't really be cleaned.

Given enough time, I can do about anything on it myself.

I know of injected cars that start right up after more than a year. I'm a bit surprised, but also feeling pretty down and guilty.

Has anyone been through this? Any idea what I might try? Any idea what the likely scenario is?

No matter what, I'm going to fix it, if I have to wait and save funds to do it. Hardly any miles on my ST, and I plan to spend my retirement on it.

Any thoughts, advice, or whiskey appreciated.

Jim

I'd pull a plug and see if you get spark, also a good time to look at the plugs for wetness/flooded.
Maybe a new set of plugs might help.
Mice might of gotten in the throttle body area and chewed up some wire to the injectors.

Al Gully said:

Mice might of gotten in the throttle body area and chewed up some wire to the injectors.

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A big plus one on this....also, not that you probably didn't, but is the kill switch in the right position? In neutral with the light on? Simple stuff like that can happen.....might have to open the throttle a bit to see if it will fire....good luck..........ff

In desperate times I'll use a little shot of starting fluid (ether) to fire the engine and clear its throat. I haven't had a non start problem with my ST. But it has worked on my old CM 400 and my old Nissan hardbody that sat for a more than a year.

Sounds like the fuel went bad and may have ruined the fuel pump, or you may have had the fuel injector wires chewed on by some mice building a nest in the "V" area under the air filter housing.

Sorry I can't suggest what to look at first, I'm too new to injected bikes. I find it hard to believe that all 4 injectors are solidly plugged. Surely one would leak fuel and you would at least get a pop or a poorly running engine. My bike was very hard to start after 6 weeks or so just sitting in my garage with unstabilized fuel. Posts here said this is common - water settling out of the gas/alcohol mix. Previously, sitting all winter with stabilized gas allowed the bike to fire right up.

It sounds like you know what you are doing and completely drained the lower tank. Did you take it all the way down? Since the fuel pump will continuously gas through the pipes and the overflow comes back into the tank (upper?) you might have a fuel starvation situation here. One last thing. I've read time and again never to run the starter motor for more than 30 seconds at a time (for cars, mostly). I don't know if this pertains to bikes too, but I'd think running it continuously for two batteries might fry the starter. Any other opinions on this?

Thanks guys. Some good things to try. Don't like the sound of those mice but wiring would be cheaper than injectors, I think. The pump is around $350?
I siphoned the gas out with one of those bulb with two hose siphons, got the hose down as far as it would go. A friend also suggested letting some mechanic in a can from Home Depot sit in the tank with some gas, maybe it would dissolve whatever is on the pump. Yes it seems like all the injectors would not be completely stopped up. Well, just a question of time and money now.

Thanks, happy to hear any more thoughts...

Jim

Indian Express, where do you squirt the ether in? The air cleaner?
Is it dangerous to the bike?

Jim

river said:

I siphoned the gas out with one of those bulb with two hose siphons, got the hose down as far as it would go.

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If you went through the gas cap only you still have close to 1.5 gallons still in the lower tank. Seafoam is a good product to add to the fuel. Not a fix all, but does not hurt anything. For those that have had mice chew the wires, do you not also get a fuel injector error on the dash by the neutral light?

Good luck.

How did you drain the fuel? Is all that you had to disassemble to do that put back together nicely? I am hoping that the 1/3 gallon you put in just isn't enough to re-prime the pump. That would be a happy-happy result. I'm agree with the above comment that it's unlikely that all four injectors got clogged, completely, at the same time. I'll also say that back when my buddy raced bikes and I helped out. I managed to push him on a darn GSXR a long, long way trying to start it before we noticed the kill switch was off...I've seen me do it.

Few more thoughts. These are far fetched, because your problem is almost certainly fuel related. In another thread, someone was having his bike quit and the suggestions were to check the angle bank switch (tip over switch), kick stand (already suggested), and engine kill switch. These will shut you down electrically. In my experience with mice and a car, they tend to leave a LOT of evidence of their having been there. Mice tend not to go to a car and snack on the wiring and then leave - they nest in the car and leave shredded nesting material and/or black rice as evidence of their visit. If you can somehow see between the 'Vee" you might be able to eliminate this possibility.

Be careful with the ether. My mechanic once sprayed it into the throttle body under the air cleaner on my truck (fuel injection). The engine started right up. It is not going to harm the engine but remember the stuff is very flammable. If there is a spark or backfire you might lose some eyebrows.

I once left some gas in my old Triumph. When I tried to restart it, nada. I pulled apart the Amal carb and there was a metal screen inside the float bowl that was completely covered in jellied gunk. There is a fuel filter in the ST inside the tank - check other threads here about R&R the fuel pump and maybe this filter is clogged.

I would try draining the entire tank by removing the return tube hose (1st, remove the seat adjustment assembly) and attaching a long hose from there to your gas can. That pipe goes as low into the lower tank as possible, so depending how much you removed before and then put new in, just make sure you have a big can to hold the gas!

Then I would take a can of Seafoam, dump in it, and then add a gallon of gas. That's all you will need, if it will start.

You could pull the tank up, airfilter out and spray some starter fluid down the throats of the throttlebodies.

I had left my 2010 sitting idle for a number of months and it took forever to get it started. But it finally did. I just kept cranking.

On the other hand, I left my '04 sitting for several months and it started right up!

Good luck!

A couple of questions. Can you hear the fuel pump running when you first turn on the ignition switch? Did you open up the lower tank when you drained your gas? Did the old fuel look normal?

I highly doubt that bad gas would ruin your fuel pump. They really are very simple in design if you ever took one apart to look at and its relatively easy to test to see if you've got flow coming out of the pump.

The first thing I would try is to cycle the Engine Off switch about five or six times to make sure the fuel system is pressurized before actually hitting the starter button. Easy to do and doesn't cost anything...

I don't have a solution to your problem, but have a couple of observations about some of the posts here. I know you didn't try to start your ST with the kill switch off, since you stated that you had cranked it over numerous times with the starter button - that won't happen if the kill switch is turned off. Also, the FI light doesn't come on when the ignition switch is turned on if the kill switch is turned off. These observations are easy to confirm in less than 5 seconds. I admire SupraSabre for all his restoration work on ST1300s, but I question why he suggested removing the air filter to spray starter fluid into the throttle body snorkles before attempting to crank it up? I think he may have meant to remove the airbox cover to spray starter fluid, as I don't think there would be any reason to remove the filter. When the airbox cover (lid) is removed, there will be unfiltered air going into the throttle bodies anyway, no air through the filter. I have used (or tried) starting fluid on carbureted bikes in the past, but never on my ST. However, if I was desperate and have already eliminated the ignition system as the problem, I would cautiously try the starting fluid in desperation.

river said:

My beloved ST1300A (06) sat for two years in storage.

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That's a long time to sit without a fuel stabilizer. I agree that it sounds like a fuel issue.

The first thing I would try is SupraSabre's suggestion concerning Sea Foam. That's a cheap, easy, first try. If that doesn't work, do as others have said and look for signs of mice making a nest and chowing down on wires. If you still can't find the problem & solution, the next thing I'd do is completely drain the upper tank and as much as you can from the lower tank then add just enough gas/sea foam mixture to allow for an engine start.

It's possible there could be some water in the lower tank due to phase separation of ethanol (see illustration below) but if you had the bike completely topped off with gasoline during storage this "should have" kept atmospheric moisture out of the gasoline. The lack of fuel stabilizer however may have changed that... dunno. The next step would be to do a visual inspection of the lower fuel tank and pump/filter assembly.

Don't mean to freak you out but hopefully you don't have the same problem I had when I bought my current ST a couple of years ago (very unlikely as I am the only one who has had this happen that I know of). The bike had sat up for a LONG time and due probably to ethanol phase separation and a lack of STABIL during storage, the lower fuel tank rusted up. After a few weeks of ownership, the rust particles eventually clogged up the fuel filter. The discovery story is in THIS thread. The labor intensive cure is shown in THIS thread.


From: http://www.tanknology.co.uk/tanknology_services/biofuels.html

" When water does contaminate ethanol blended fuel, the water dissolves into the ethanol and disperses throughout the tank. Once it exceeds its maximum tolerance, the alcohol/water mixture will separate from the fuel. As little as 50mm of water in a 38,000 litre tank can start phase separation"

Don B said:

.... I admire SupraSabre for all his restoration work on ST1300s, but I question why he suggested removing the air filter to spray starter fluid into the throttle body snorkles before attempting to crank it up? I think he may have meant to remove the airbox cover to spray starter fluid, ....

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Thanks for clarifying what I meant... I thought about that after I had posted, but figured he would figure it out..

+1 on this being fuel-related.
Before anything else, turn on the ignition and listen for the fuel pump to kick in and pressurize. It should make noise for a couple seconds after you turn on the key. If you don't hear it pumping, you'll need to fix that first.

I'd be a little more cautious than others here with the starter fluid, and not only because it's so likely to cough flames back at your face.

The ether in starting fluid burns very fast and I'd be concerned about cracking a ring if too much is fed to the engine and it meets a spark. I'd use it, but I'd be very sparing with it.

Jack

Kevin_56 said:

If you went through the gas cap only you still have close to 1.5 gallons still in the lower tank. Seafoam is a good product to add to the fuel. Not a fix all, but does not hurt anything. For those that have had mice chew the wires, do you not also get a fuel injector error on the dash by the neutral light?

Good luck.

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I'm surprised I did not know that, but I didn't. I presume there is a drain valve for the lower part of the tank? I'll be consulting the shop manual later....

Thanks...

Jim

river said:

I'm surprised I did not know that, but I didn't. I presume there is a drain valve for the lower part of the tank?

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No drain. You can do it with the fuel pump and one of the hoses out of the top of the lower tank. One of the posts on this thread talks about doing this. Of course the fuel pump must work. The service manual shows using a siphon/pump hose slipped into the large fuel joint hose that attaches to the upper tank to drain the lower tank to remove the lower fuel. Page 5-50