Oh no.......sat too long, won't start....now what

Kevin_56 said:

No drain. You can do it with the fuel pump and one of the hoses out of the top of the lower tank. One of the posts on this thread talks about doing this. Of course the fuel pump must work. The service manual shows using a siphon/pump hose slipped into the large fuel joint hose that attaches to the upper tank to drain the lower tank to remove the lower fuel. Page 5-50

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Obviously, if you can do this, the fuel pump has proven that it is functioning. Sounds like a good way to kill two birds with one stone - drain the tank and prove to yourself the pump works well.

Borrowing a picture here....

BakerBoy said:

No, the return fuel is returned into the lower tank.

In the pic below, #4 is the fuel supply into the lower tank from the upper (large so that the lower tank fills quickly during fillups), #1 is the 'air' equalization vent line between lower and upper tanks, #5 is the pressurized fuel supplied to the fuel rail, and #6 is the depressurized fuel return line from the fuel pressure regulator (that regulator is at the tail end of the fuel rail).

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Have a piece of 1/4" tubing handy and a gas can to put the fuel in.
Pull off hose #6 and put on the 1/4" tubing.
If you still have fuel in the upper tank it will be forcing the fuel out of the lower tank through this hose.
If you keep it lower then the fuel level, it will end up siphoning the lower fuel tank to almost completely empty.

And.. you don't need to remove the upper tank to get to this. Just pull the seat bracket off.

T_C said:

Borrowing a picture here....



Have a piece of 1/4" tubing handy and a gas can to put the fuel in.
Pull off hose #6 and put on the 1/4" tubing.
If you still have fuel in the upper tank it will be forcing the fuel out of the lower tank through this hose.
If you keep it lower then the fuel level, it will end up siphoning the lower fuel tank to almost completely empty.

And.. you don't need to remove the upper tank to get to this. Just pull the seat bracket off.

Click to expand...

BINGO! TC got it!

T_C said:

...

Have a piece of 1/4" tubing handy and a gas can to put the fuel in. Insert one end of the 1/4" tube into the gas can.
Pull off hose #6 and put the other end of the 1/4" tubing onto the fuel tank inlet joint.
If you still have fuel in the upper tank it will be forcing the fuel out of the lower tank through this [-]hose[/-] inlet joint. Work quickly and have a rag available to wipe up any gas spillage.
If you keep it lower then the fuel level, it will end up siphoning the lower fuel tank to almost completely empty.

And.. you don't need to remove the upper tank to get to this. Just pull the seat bracket off.

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Added some clarification for instruction challenged people like myself.

I don't know if it's necessary but I clamped off hose #6 before I pulled it off when I did this several years ago...

Whenever I had a starting problem I remember being told you need three things. Spark, Fuel, Air. The first two are easy to check by pulling a plug. If it's wet you're getting fuel. Test for spark. Is the spark weak or strong?
If the plugs are dry then trace fuel delivery.
Check for clogged air filter
now this is going to sound strange,because even if you have spark, install a set of new plugs. I had a starting problem last year. The bike had sat for awhile. My plugs were damp, but when I cleaned them I had spark. I tried a number of times to start the bike ...nada.... I broke down called the dealer, told me put in new plugs. I balked but did it anyway. I installed a set and it fired right up.
when I had my CB750F the ritual was to put in new plugs every season and didn't have an issue unless i didn't change them.
Process of elimination, one thing at a time.
Much success

If it turns out that you need a new fuel pump I read somewhere on the site where there is an inexpensive equivalent. I copied/pasted into my STnotes:
Fuel pump equivalent: 2000 honda accord 2.3L
Here are the threads that mention it.

I haven't needed it yet, but the info on this site hasn't let me down yet.

Hey Jim, just read this thread. Lots of good ideas, all of which might be the case.

I frequently had a similar problem (4-5 times a year when the bike sat for more than 2 weeks) and my problem was most definitely just what Mick described in Post #16 . . . Ethanol Phase Separation, aka water at the bottom of the tank.

My solution took about 1-3 minutes, each time it happened. Be sure your battery is charged up before you start.
- ignition on, kill switch off.
- push the start button and hold while opening the throttle up all the way.
- run for about 10-15 seconds, and if it didn't start, stop. Wait 10-15 seconds.
- repeat procedure. Be patient.
- Usually about the 4th or 5th try I'd hear and feel the engine catch a spark or two then kind of chug along. Your almost there.
- Remember the 10-15 second limit.
- Once the "chugging" starts, the engine isn't yet self-sustaining, but it's coming shortly.
- As soon as the engine catches fire, quickly reduce the throttle, but not all the way, and rev to about 50% a time or two.
- Let engine continue to idle, suit up, kick stand up, 1st gear and . . . go.

My non-technical thoughts on what I did was that the amount of water condensed in the ethanol isn't much and I just needed to pump it out enough to get to some liquid with some firepower and the bike would do the rest. I only ran the starter for 10-15 seconds at a time so as not to burn it up and to extend the battery output.

So, I definitely do not have the technical expertise of most of the commenters on this thread, but . . . this is what worked for me and kept me riding. I did use fuel stabilizer one time, let it sit and settle to the bottom of the tank, and it seemed to speed up the process, but it still took several 10-15 seconds intervals of cranking to 'catch fire.'

FWIW,
Shuey

It is a strange thing to say that the injectors cannot be cleaned. I was certainly able to clean my VFR800's injectors (or, rather, an injector cleaning company did it for me), and I'd be surprised if the ST1300's injectors were significantly different...

Ciao,

Wow, look at all the responses! I'm going to have her towed (tilt bed truck, owner is a biker too) to my house so I've spent the last couple days moving everything out of the garage (I just recently moved into my house and boxes are everywhere).

I hope you are right AlleyBrewer (say, is NC too far to go to taste what comes out of that still?). I did go back with recharged battery, and the only noise that happened when I turned the bike on is a click clack in the area of the relays on the left under the seat. No pump sound. I need to get it out and give back the store room, and have it in the garage where I can take my time running down all the suggestions here.

I've got my fingers crossed but now that I've heard the worst case scenario (new injectors...$150 each, pump, $600 each) I'm resigned and will enjoy working on my baby. Hopefully I won't have the worst case but we'll see.

It's a low mileage bike, always stored inside, so I'd be surprised if there are electrical problems unless measly mice did it, when I get it home I am going to get a good flashlight out and go over it looking for signs. Thanks.

SupraSabre, I am going to try that first thing. Do you mean I should put the gas and Seafoam in and let it sit, or just try and start it? Boy, wouldn't that be sweet?

Scooter and two-wheeled, thanks, no have not emptied lower tank, didn't know there was one til this thread. I did try cycling the kill switch, recommended by the guy who has run parts at the local shop for years. No no pump sound and after doing it 20 times would not fire, just turn over with starter. I hope you're right about that pump. If it's so simple, I wonder why it costs $600? Oh yeah, it's a motorcycle...

Don....not desperate yet, but.... Jack and all, will try gas instead of ether, I'm told the fumes will start the bike if the injectors/pump are out. Anybody able to confirm this?

Mick, thanks. No it's not rusted (at least the top one). But it was on its way, the inside is not smooth silver like it was, it's kind of black and silver speckly. Hope it doesn't go ahead and rust. But I bought a spare tank years ago, wrong color, but my brother and I have a long history of riding and we've seen tanks rust thus the spare tank, think I paid a couple hundred. And that's why I kept it full of gas. Now if I had just not omitted the Stabil....well. I'll be tearing it apart and hopefully will find

Kevin, yes I read Ch 5 now, I see what I'm going to have to do. BTW did you see the required tools at the front of the chapter? The price on those is probably not insubstantial either. Hopefully wn't need them all but I do need to pick up a fuel pressure gauge anyway.
T-C, excellent, thanks! That's a big help. Will clamp it off Scooter.
Mr. B, thanks, you may be saving me some serious bucks! Which is good because now I owe everyone a beer!
Hey Shuey! I remember trying to keep up with that Whelen brake light at Big Ben a few years ago, good times. Thanks for the input, I hope you're right.

Wow, thanks everyone for all the help. A great part of having the ST was checking in at STOwners, and getting help and info here, and I'm sure glad it's still so active. Look forward to catching up with you guys on the road. I will post what happens here. Unless I have to sell my computer to pay for the repairs!

Jim

river said:

Mick, thanks. No it's not rusted (at least the top one). But it was on its way, the inside is not smooth silver like it was, it's kind of black and silver speckly. Hope it doesn't go ahead and rust. But I bought a spare tank years ago, wrong color, but my brother and I have a long history of riding and we've seen tanks rust thus the spare tank, think I paid a couple hundred. And that's why I kept it full of gas. Now if I had just not omitted the Stabil....well. I'll be tearing it apart and hopefully will find

Click to expand...

Keep in mind that you're most likely to get rust in the bottom tank rather than in the upper tank because water, if present, will settle to the lowest point due to its density being higher than gasoline.

Mick said:

Keep in mind that you're most likely to get rust in the bottom tank than in the upper tank because water, if present, will settle to the lowest point because it is more dense than gasoline.

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Thanks Mick. I've been looking on Ebay and there are a lot of lower tanks for 40-60, and some with fuel pump for around 150.

river, does the pump run when you turn on the key?

BakerBoy said:

river, does the pump run when you turn on the key?

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In POST #30 it answered this by saying no. Relays were clicking but no pump noise.

Thanks, missed that.

Kevin_56 said:

In POST #30 it answered this by saying no. Relays were clicking but no pump noise.

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With Jim's description . . . no starter running either. No starter, no fuel pump, no cranking, no fuel to fire. I always examine the simplest solutions first before . . . I abandon all hope and consign the problem to someone who actually might know what they're doing!

Good luck Jim. I remember that ride well. One of my best times ever.

Shuey

This is what I would do first. Have a voltmeter handy? Connect the positive lead to the brown wire at the end of the three wire connector coming off of the top of the fuel pump assembly. You can access this connector just above the left side side panel which normally is covered up by the drivers saddle. Next, connect the ground lead to the green wire of the same connector or you can also simply press it against any point on a frame ground. Then turn on the ignition and look to see if you can read voltage going to the pump (mine measures about 11.2 volts).

If you do have voltage going to the pump, and I suspect you do, your fuel pump is bad and I wouldn't be surprised if you find rust inside the lower tank when you open it up. If you cannot measure any voltage at the fuel pump connector then you have electrical issues that need to be addressed. Keep us posted...

No, John, I'm afraid it doesn't....