2006 ST1300 / Notchy Shifting

I purchased my '06 ST1300 back in July of 2010 with roughly 8,800 miles. Though it has never shifted as smoothly as I would have liked it to, it's gotten progressively worse. By the end of this past riding season, the biking was becoming unenjoyable to ride. I absolutely love the bike and don't want to sell it, but it was to the point where something had to be done. It has roughly 45,000 miles on it now. I accomplished a clutch "fluid swap" last year to eliminate air bubbles in the line. It made no difference in the behavior. I've mostly run Mobil 1 or Rotella, but occasionally have had to run Honda's 10-40W conventional oil because I was unable to find Mobil 1 or Rotella in the local stores when needed. One thought was that the shift linkage under the bike had become fouled with dirt, but that wasn't the case. It was quite clean and none of the dust boots on the linkages were compromised. With the bike on the center stand and the engine *not* running, shifting felt extremely smooth, so it didn't appear to be an issue with the shift drum/shift fork part of the transmission.

I wanted to get it in before my extended warranty runs out (June), so I dropped it off this last week. Two of the technicians rode it and they both concurred that it has the issue I described. They tore into it yesterday and gave me a call this morning. They were suspecting a "dragging clutch" issue. They said that they were a bit amazed at how good everything looks. The metal clutch plates looked almost like new with no warpage. The friction plates looked really good as well. I've never been one to drag the clutch, so that didn't surprise me. The pressure springs all measured within tolerance and were equal in length, though they were just barely in tolerance. They spoke with Honda, and their first recommendation was to completely bleed the clutch, which they did. The local tech said that they found absolutely no bubbles in the system, so that made me feel good that I did a proper job on that last year! The clutch assembly moved as expected when the clutch lever was pulled.

What we've decided to do is to eliminate as many possibilities as possible (within reason) by replacing the friction plates, pressure springs, and then running the exact oil Honda is recommending so that they can't come back and say that we're not following their guidelines. I know that several other forum members have experienced the "notchy" shifting as well, so I'm hoping that the steps taken with my bike and the outcome can help others. The parts are going to be ordered on Monday, so it will most likely be at least a week before I'll post again.

Stay tuned!

Re: 2006 ST1300 / Notchy Shirting

Wow it sounds like the dealer is just guessing on what the problem is. Good luck with the problem. Sounds like all you needed was a good clutch bleed.

Re: 2006 ST1300 / Notchy Shirting

If the clutch were slipping, I'd whole-heartedly agree with the swap of the friction plates and springs. I'm not convinced that the problem will be resolved, but I feel it's best to play Honda's game so that they can't claim that their instructions weren't followed. I feel that I've researched the problem from every angle possible without disassembling the transmission. It's possible that the friction and pressure plates are not separating when shifting. I didn't buy the bike new, so there's no way of knowing what the previous owner did that might have caused the problem. I'm just approaching the issue as methodically as possible. If the problem is resolved with the new parts and conventional oil, then I'll be sticking with using conventional oil instead of synthetic.

Re: 2006 ST1300 / Notchy Shirting

I have a couple questions...do you have a stock oem clutch lever?
You say the last time it was flushed was over a year ago? Did you flush or bleed it manually, with a mityvac, or check valve - motion pro type?
Did you included cleaning the perch at the lever? What condition is the rubber boot and brass bushing in.
I always find that syn oil is noisy and not as smooth shifting as other oils.
Try running some delo 400 le hdeo and see if it improves.
Search my threads and look for my blind fold taste test thread and check it out.
If you pm me a contact number I will call you tomorrow and discuss a couple more possible solutions....
Igofar

Re: 2006 ST1300 / Notchy Shirting

I have put almost 50,000 miles on my 07 and the only ntime she had trouble shifting was when i tried ROTELLA .
I did

Re: 2006 ST1300 / Notchy Shirting

Once i replaced the rotella with motorcycle oil the shifting problem was gone .

Re: 2006 ST1300 / Notchy Shirting

Igofar: 'Yes' to the stock clutch lever. I flushed the clutch hydraulics last September. I used a manual hydraulic vac along with a check valve. I cleaned the entire assembly on the handlebar. I clean and oil the pivot points on the levers on a regular basis. I can't stand that "crunchy" feeling in the levers when they get dry.

The inconsistent part in all of this is when I exit the highway after an hour or two stretch. As I downshift at the end of the exit ramp, and for the first few shifts after that, it shifts extremely smooth. It doesn't hang up at all. This brings my thinking back to "stiction" between the pressure and clutch plates. While on the highway for long periods of time with no shifting, the oil between the plates may be getting completely squeezed out, so when I do pull in the clutch, they break free cleanly. After a relatively few number of shifts, the plates are coated with oil again, and the "stiction" behavior returns.

As I discussed with the tech at the dealer, I'm going to stick with the exact oil Honda recommends for the engine and see how it goes. I've always used synthetic in all of my vehicles because I tend to keep them forever and want to get the maximum mileage out of them, but this issue isn't worth the trade-off. I'm truly not enjoying the ST because of this issue.

Thanks for the input guys!

I had the same notchy shifting since shortly after I did my first oil change. First oil change was performed by my than mechanic. He used Spectro regular or semi-synthetic. After that I performed the following two oil changes, first Amsoil (full synthetic) and the Mobile 1 4t, notchy shifting got worse with both oil changes with new filters. My third oil change was back to Spectro, Golden 10W 40 at the recommendation of my new mechanic. Instantly the shifting was back to smooth, quick and easy. I couldn't believe the difference. I asked Anthony, new mechanic, and he said that's common feedback from riders of bikes with wet clutches, like the ST. I am still amazed. Even though motorcylce synthetic oil doesn't have the friction modifiers found in most auto synthetic oil, Anthony said his understanding is the synthetic oil molecules are smaller and more consistent (a good thing for reduce wear) however the gears are designed with such lower tolerances that the smaller oil film can cause a slight miss alignment of the gears as they mesh. Conventional oil molecules vary in size and the larger molecules result in a thicker film... Which resides between the gears. I am not a chemist, but I can attest to the night and day difference and I have no plans on using any other oil. I also do understand, having some experience working with gears and tooth profiles, very small changes can cause profound changes in tooth/gear alignment and smooth operation.

This is my experience and in no way want to get into a debate over oils. I would have never believed the difference had I not experienced it. In hindsight, I had the same notchy shifting on my 2004 Suzuki intruder LC 1500 which I sold before understanding why it became notchy. I also put Amsoil motorcylce oil in it. It's a relatively cheap thing to try before getting into splitting the case to look at the gears, etc. I ride the ST in a form that keeps the Sport relevant to SportTour with quick shift, moderate to heavy acceleration, not in an abusive way. It's a machine and I ride it and expect it to perform as one. That is why I bought the ST.

Good luck, happy riding. Keep us posted on the prognosis.

Barry
2006 ST1300


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bleerii77 said:

My third oil change was back to Spectro, conventional at the recommendation of my new mechanic.

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What weight Spectro do you use and what is it called? Spectro makes a Heavy Duty, Golden and Platinum oils, from what I am finding and none of them come in 10W 40 and the Heavy Duty is the only conventional one. They do make an ATV oil that comes in 10W 40. Which one are you using that makes the bike shift better. Never mind, I was just on the Spectro website and found that the Spectro 4 conventional does come in 10W 40.

woodybelle said:

What weight Spectro do you use and what is it called? Spectro makes a Heavy Duty, Golden and Platinum oils, from what I am finding and none of them come in 10W 40 and the Heavy Duty is the only conventional one. They do make an ATV oil that comes in 10W 40. Which one are you using that makes the bike shift better. Never mind, I was just on the Spectro website and found that the Spectro 4 conventional does come in 10W 40.

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I use Spectro semi-synthetic 10w40 and it works great. Best oil I have used as far as shifting.

*****Correction*****
I'm using the Spectro golden 10W 40 which IS a semi synthetic .... The notchy gears were with full synthetic. It is available on Amazon. The oil is not cheap but I find it worth the money. Some use the Shell Rotella oil but I have not. I usually change my oil somewhere around 5k miles give or take a few. The factory manual calls for oil change/filter ever 8K miles.... I personally fee that is too long, just like 100k miles on spark plugs... Not on my truck. Anywho....old oil usually looks/smells ok, not burnt or nasty, but does look used. Never noticed too much oil consumption either... Maybe a down a 1/3 qt.
Cheers


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Try the Delo 400 LE 10w-30 or 15w-40 on your next oil change, you may find it shifts just as smooth or better, at a third of the price of the The Spectro oil.

Chevron Delo LE sucks !!!!! Use Shell Rotella T6 !!!!!

Honda-st-team said:

Chevron Delo LE sucks !!!!! Use Shell Rotella T6 !!!!!

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I've been using the Shell Rotella T6 5W-40 for several oil changes, and the shifting has been horrible. I can't see using it again...

I have 2 St1300's 1 police unit I use for training and police motor competitions and 1 civilian one I ride for pleasure I have been using Shell Rotella T6 for 3 years with NO issues

Honda-st-team said:

Chevron Delo LE sucks !!!!! Use Shell Rotella T6 !!!!!

Click to expand...

That's the same way I feel about the Rotella crap. Worst shifting oil I ever used. I changed it before I had 1K miles on it.

Actually, at this point in the process, the source of the notchy shifting with my ST hasn't been identified. The only angle that makes sense so far is with the clutch. If the engine is not running, the shifting is perfectly smooth. There's not even the slightest hint of roughness in the process. If I've been on the highway for a while, downshifting when exiting is extremely smooth. I can't say if that's due to all of the oil being squeezed out from between the plates over time, allowing them to more cleanly separate.

I swapped the clutch fluid this past September, and when the mechanic did it again this past Saturday, he said that he specifically watched for bubbles, and there weren't any. He measured the travel of the end clutch plate before and after he swapped the clutch fluid, and there was no change. I can understand how different oil formulas and viscosities can vary in how they stick to a surface. Some are likely to allow the individual plates in the clutch to more easily separate than others.

I'm going to start with the exact oil Honda specifies for the ST1300, and go from there. I'll be starting with a completely clean clutch assembly (no sludge or deposits), so I won't be able to point the finger at that being a potential problem.

Fingers crossed!

Use of the clutch isn't necessary for smooth shifting after the bike in rolling in first gear although this is not normal operating procedure. How does the shifting go when you try it without the clutch?

I'm thinking that smooth shifting without using the clutch would require finding the right rpm's so that the two gears meshing would be spinning at the same rate. I've never experimented with clutchless shifting because I didn't want to knock the gears together.

Done right it feels like an automatic transmission, nearly seamless. Basically preload the shift lever with your toe as if you are trying to select the next gear and accelerate smartly to at least 4,000 rpm and roll off the throttle really quick then back on. When the throttle rolls off the pressure on the engaged gear goes away and the preloaded shift lever engages the next one. Try it in a 2-3 or 3-4 shift. You won't hurt it.

If these clutchless shifts goes OK then concentrate on the clutch mechanism.

Edit: Doh I should have read all your posts. If the bike is at the shop for repairs you can't try this.