Fork Seal Questions

Joined
May 12, 2012
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Location
Rio Rancho, NM
Background: '06 ST1300, 44k miles, local commuter with limited touring outside the state, third owner, this could be the first seal change. It is my first seal change ever!

I've done my reading and this seems like a simple maintenance task.

Questions

  • I'm more than likely going to use All Balls seal kit - anyone have any problems with this brand? I like the triple flange and from what I've read others like them.
  • Of course I haven't inspected the internal parts so I don't know if there is any unusual wear, but is there a standard practice of replacing certain internal parts whether worn or not, i.e., back up ring, fork and slider bushings, etc? Just planning ahead so I can order everything I know I will need. Other than the seal kit, sealing washer (fork socket bolt), and fluid, is there anything mandatory or suggested?
  • I've heard Amsoil is great. Any other 10W other than OEM that you prefer and why? Is there a significant difference between brands or like engine oil is it all about the same, relatively speaking?
  • Did you use a driver or make your own? My roommate fabricated one from PVC pipe and said it worked very well.
  • Any precautions I should be aware of other than what the maintenance manual says? Any tricks of the trade?
  • Plan on 8-10 hrs for a first-timer for both forks?
  • If sealed properly, why/how does the fluid get so dirty?
  • Should fork fluid be replaced every 10k miles or so for better performance, less wear and tear, longer life of seals, other reasons? I haven't checked to see if this is a regular maintenance item yet.
  • How do you guys measure this seemingly exact amount of fluid required? Large syringe, graduated cylinder, other? I find it interesting that it calls for 21.6 +/- 0.08 oz and the Honda SS8 comes in 16 oz.

That's it for now. Thanks for the support!

Mike
 

dduelin

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Re: NEWBIE - Fork Seal Questions

Here is a few answers:

https://www.st-owners.com/forums/showthread.php?80871-Honda-builds-a-machine-to-go-the-distance-(shocks)&highlight=

You might read through posts in the ST1300 sub forum ST1300 Suspension. Lots of posts on the subject. You can look at the top of your original post and click on the Suspension link to go directly to the sub forum.

I change the oil about every 15 or 20,000 miles. First time was about 35,000 IIRC. I replaced the seals and bushings at 72,xxx miles. They weren't leaking nor were the bushings worn much at all.

I don't generally go outside of Honda OEM parts. Honda makes good stuff, I don't see taking chances on aftermarket seals. Never had a leak yet - 72k replaced out of abundance of caution, now 80k later on those seals. I use a 2:1 mix of Honda SS7 5wt and SS8 10 wt. If you change brand of oil it's likely the viscosity of the other is not the same and will change fork response. Weight is a poor indicator of light oil viscosity and change in viscosity with heat.
 
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Re: NEWBIE - Fork Seal Questions

Choose a synthetic fork fluid, use OEM seals and measuring the fluid height from the top of the fork tube is the only way to ensure an accurate level.

However, I seriously doubt you need to go to all the trouble of replacing seals and bushings at this point, with only 44,000 miles. Fluid change only and using synthetic will get even more life out of those bushings.
 
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Re: NEWBIE - Fork Seal Questions

For my first seal change (around 50k iirc) I went OEM. My second change was around 30k miles later. Our roads are very rough, I ride hard, and the seals started leaking after riding in very cold temps (sub-zero F) in the above conditions. I replaced them that time with All Balls. One seal started leaking almost immediately. I disassembled, checked to ensure I had installed the seal correctly (it was) and put it back together. Still leaking. A month later (when I finally had time) I replaced the seals again with OEM. That was 40k miles ago and they are going strong with no leaks.

The job should take a first timer a few hours. I think the last time it took me an hour to do both seals. Read through the other threads telling step-by-step. It looks like a lot of steps but it's pretty straightforward. Longest part of the job is getting the forks off, just dealing with all the misc. bolts for calipers, fender, etc. I used Honda fork oil just because I could get it nearby. Its a bit over priced, but the weight will be consistent, and you don't use much so the cost really isn't much of a factor.
 
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Re: NEWBIE - Fork Seal Questions

I've always used the cheap generic seals that I can buy at the local cycle shop, never had any problems.

To install the new seals I use the old seal as a driver and tap it down with a large screwdriver. That way I'm never touching the new seal with anything other than the rubber of the old seal. When the new seal is driven fully into place you can pry the old seal back out with a small screwdriver (not sure if this applies to the 1300, but it should, its been that way on every bike I've replaced seals on).

Oil weight is more important than brand, and its a personal choice depending on how firm a response you want from the forks. Also, adjusting the oil height is actually a suspension tuning technique, so don't sweat getting it accurate to within 1mm if you use the distance from tube top method, or within 1ml if you use the volume method. You don't want it way off, but a little variation won't hurt anything, so just measure carefully and you'll be OK.
 
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Re: NEWBIE - Fork Seal Questions

I have a Honda Magna and unfortunately had to change the seals several times. Around 20k miles I changed them and installed progressive springs; but when I put on non-oem seals...one leaked. Replaced it again and it lasted less than a year and it started to leak. Went back to oem and it hadn't leaked in 6 years. I'm not an "oem-or-die" kind of guy, this was just my experience.

I don't know if this applies to the ST, but on my Honda Magna it was difficult to seat the seals. There is obviously little room between the tube and the fork, and NOT putting equal pressure around the entire seal while seating it could damage it. On the advice of someone else, I built a "seating tool" out of pvc. It is long enough that it extended beyond the top of the fork so I could tap it with a hammer to seat the seal.

As you can see from the pic it has a reducer in between two pipes. The smaller end drives the seal down, then you can flip it and use the larger end to drive the dust shield in. This eliminates the possibility of tearing the seal or knicking the tube.

If the fork size is the same, I will definitely use it when I get around to changing the ST seals. Surely someone here knows, but if it is compatible I can post some dimensions. IIRC the O.D. on the smaller pipe was slightly larger than the I.D. on the reducer, so I had to take a belt sander to it to get the two to fit. It was so worth it to have around!
 
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Re: NEWBIE - Fork Seal Questions

I'm more than likely going to use All Balls seal kit - anyone have any problems with this brand? I like the triple flange and from what I've read others like them.
I too liked the All Balls seal design, so when the OEM seals failed at 32K miles, that is exactly what I installed. Now 3.5 years, and 70K miles later, the All Balls seals are still working fine with no leakage. In my opinion the All Balls seals are a better set of seals than originally installed on the ST1300.

The bushings on the other hand, at 32K miles, appeared to have almost no wear. In the future should I need to replace them, I see no reason not to stay with the OEM bushings.
 
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Re: NEWBIE - Fork Seal Questions

If the fork size is the same, I will definitely use it when I get around to changing the ST seals.
Nope, the Magna forks were something like 37mm, which conveniently fit inside a 1-1/2" ID pipe like you have shown. The ST1100 forks are 41mm or larger, depending on which model you have. Not sure about the 1300, but they're at least as big as the 1100 forks. You didn't mention which ST you have, but whichever one it is, your pipe will be too small to fit.
 

W0QNX

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Re: NEWBIE - Fork Seal Questions

I made a "driver" out of pvc split into 2 pieces. I've changed a few set of seals in my life and have learned a little lube helps those new seals slip inside a bunch. I was able to simple push the ST seals in with the "driver" and some spray lube.

OEM for me.
 
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Re: NEWBIE - Fork Seal Questions

If the fork size is the same, I will definitely use it when I get around to changing the ST seals. Surely someone here knows, but if it is compatible I can post some dimensions. IIRC the O.D. on the smaller pipe was slightly larger than the I.D. on the reducer, so I had to take a belt sander to it to get the two to fit. It was so worth it to have around!
The fork size is not the same. Per Mother Honda, the ST1300's fork diameter is 45mm.
 
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A little trick for the top caps is undo the upper pinch bolts but leave the lower triple tree pinch bolts tight until you have pre-loosened the top caps.
 

paulcb

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A little trick for the top caps is undo the upper pinch bolts but leave the lower triple tree pinch bolts tight until you have pre-loosened the top caps.
:plus1:
 
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Yes that's how I did it. My bike has risers which made for a tight fit but I was able to get a breaker bar on with an extension after I lowered the forks below the upper clamp. I first tried to remove them with the forks out and an impact air wrench but my setup didn't have enough grunt to get it done.

If you are going to the trouble of taking them all apart, don't cheap out on the seals. Most folks have had great success with the Honda parts. Not so much with the others. Also, if, like me, you weigh north of 200lbs consider the spring upgrade. The stock springs are too soft for the weight of the bike and a heavy rider. My bike is much more precise and stable after the change. Last weekend my buddy who has an identical 06 and I swapped rides and the difference was instantly apparent. While he wasn't ready to tear his forks apart yet, if and when he needs seals, springs will be part of the job.
 
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mmm, all this talk about replacing fork seals & oil makes me realize it's way past time I replaced the oil on mine (perhaps even go even further and tackle busings as well).
Last time I touched my forks was about 100k km ago when I replaced a leaky seal.
 
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