Top 3 things you like and would change about the ST

TomStickler · Feb 27, 2015

st11ray said:
Better gas mileage.

The V-4 motor has sufficient torque that gears 2-3-4 could be replaced with just two -- leaving 1st and 5th ratios as-is -- and now you have a perfectly good, lighter transmission with just four gears. Adding gears won't improve gas mileage: changing ratios might.

dc112675 · Feb 27, 2015

It's funny, I bought a 95 Honda Magna (750cc V4) in 2006. I joined a forum and the discussions were nearly identical to this thread...just slightly different issues: better brakes, sixth gear, bigger tank. The 3rd generation Magna was made in 94-03, and the only change they made in 10 years was the color (sound familiar?)! Everyone touted the Magna as the best bike, and wondered when Honda would release the new Magna!

At the beginning of this year I bought a 04 ST1300. I think Honda solved most of the Magna issues, but now there is another set of issues. And even more ironic, ST1300 owners are wondering when Honda is going to release a new ST1300!

I'm not picking on anyone...just think it's funny that I bought two different Honda bikes 9 years apart. Both were 11 years old, both have an almost cult-like following, both were produced for about 10 years with almost no changes (except for color), and both were ridden by members who anticipated/wished Honda would update the platform. Riders of both bikes insist that their bike was only a couple of changes from being perfect. Kind of eerie the similarities.

In another 9 years I guess I'll buy another Honda that has the similar issues. Like you though, I'm thankful...these bikes (even with their flaws) make for some great, reliable, fun machines.

I guess I'm just a decade behind!

BakerBoy · Feb 28, 2015

dduelin said:
Would we exchange 100 lbs for rear subframes that crack and suspect reliability reputations? Sometimes less is less.

And often less is more. Maybe you're indicating you wouldn't, but I will not buy a bike near this heavy again. I would happily take the "risk" of lowering the bike's weight by 100 lbs. If BMW can produce the well-featured RT at 160 lb relative weight reduction to the ST, and Yammie is able to make the FJR about 90 lb lighter than the ST, who says Honda can't apply their engineering skill and meet or beat those??

st11ray · Feb 28, 2015

TomStickler said:
The V-4 motor has sufficient torque that gears 2-3-4 could be replaced with just two -- leaving 1st and 5th ratios as-is -- and now you have a perfectly good, lighter transmission with just four gears. Adding gears won't improve gas mileage: changing ratios might.

That's what I meant. We need an overdrive 6th gear. The ratio for 5th gear is too big for high speed cruising. My gas mileage drops to around 36 mpg when cruising at 5k rpm's. Now, for some folks that don't go that fast, that might not be a problem?

Rider33 · Feb 28, 2015

st11ray said:
That's what I meant. We need an overdrive 6th gear. The ratio for 5th gear is too big for high speed cruising. My gas mileage drops to around 36 mpg when cruising at 5k rpm's. Now, for some folks that don't go that fast, that might not be a problem?

'bingo. The motor has more than enough power with a broad enough spread that it could easily make due with just 3 or 4 gears. A broader variety of ratios tho gives you more control including an overdrive that would keep it rolling along at 75MPH+ without the need for the motor to work that hard.

And to the whole update thing, Honda really does seem to be slow on updates, even for mega-selling models like the Wing which is essentially of the same vintage as the ST under the Tupperware (early 2000's). The Wing tho doesn't really have much in the way of direct competition, the ST does. Given that, it's surprising that they have not done a few low cost update as Yamaha has done over the years with the FJR. Then again, Honda tends to get a lot of things right the first time......

jonjonboo · Feb 28, 2015

dduelin said:
Would we exchange 100 lbs for rear subframes that crack and suspect reliability reputations? Sometimes less is less.

exactly

jonjonboo · Feb 28, 2015

st11ray said:
That's what I meant. We need an overdrive 6th gear. The ratio for 5th gear is too big for high speed cruising. My gas mileage drops to around 36 mpg when cruising at 5k rpm's. Now, for some folks that don't go that fast, that might not be a problem?

when I first started riding most bike's were 4 speed and there were a few old 3 speeds still around that were daily drivers. I imagine if 6 speed ever becomes the norm many will beg for a 7 speed. The 5 speed works fine for me.

st11ray · Feb 28, 2015

jonjonboo said:
when I first started riding most bike's were 4 speed and there were a few old 3 speeds still around that were daily drivers. I imagine if 6 speed ever becomes the norm many will beg for a 7 speed. The 5 speed works fine for me.

The 5 speed works well for me too. A 6 speed would just work better.

the Ferret · Feb 28, 2015

jonjonboo said:
when I first started riding most bike's were 4 speed and there were a few old 3 speeds still around that were daily drivers. I imagine if 6 speed ever becomes the norm many will beg for a 7 speed. The 5 speed works fine for me.

My first street bike in 1965 was new Italian Aermacchi with a 3 speed transmission. I confess on my ST 1300 I once rode 40 miles down the freeway before I discovered I was in 4 th and still had one more gear to go. On my CB 1100 with 6 speed trans I find I spend a lot of time in 5 th, but at least I know it thanks to the digital gear indicator.

ToddC · Feb 28, 2015

I agree with an additional 6th gear. Always thought that with all that power, a 6th gear would put my mpg in the mid to upper 40's. Maybe even in the 50's.

My first street bike was a CB900 Custom with the high low range secondary tranny. Loved that bike

T

dduelin · Feb 28, 2015

6th cruising gear means dropping one maybe two to get equivalent roll on in 5th as now. That might be OK but it is a trade off.

jonjonboo · Feb 28, 2015

ToddC said:
My first street bike was a CB900 Custom with the high low range secondary tranny. Loved that bike

I've had 2 of those---awesome bike.

dduelin · Feb 28, 2015

[QUOTE;1832274]The fuel cut-off is an environmental thing, just like the pair system that makes the pipes pop. The out dated fuel injection system used by Honda does not help. ...[/QUOTE]The PGM-FI of the 1300 was state of art in 2002. The ST1100 was in production for like 12 years and Honda foresaw similarly long run for the 1300. It not only passed US and more stringent EU Euro 3 standards in place in 2002 it was designed to meet the upcoming stricter Euro 4 standard in 2005, which it did. Many bikes in the first FI generation of the early and mid 2000s had lean cut offs and were much harder to ride. The 2005 Yamaha FZ1 was virtually unridable and the off throttle surge of 1100 and 1150 BMW twins is legend. Most riders can and do adapt to the ST1300. You could argue that Honda has not updated the fuel management system since 2002 and that is true but judged against FI of the time the ST was and is very well fueled.

Yuma ST · Feb 28, 2015

After endless threads of a similar nature I'm sure we're all well aware by now that Mother Honda in fact DOESN'T look at these threads and could probably care less about what we have to say. Despite the grumblings (and yes I too have thrown my Teddy across the room and stomped my feet) about the bike's shortcomings most of us are still riding ST1300s and will most likely continue to do so for the forseeable future. If Honda announced tomorrow that they were going to build a new ST that would come equipped with every single item listed in this thread have no doubt that there would still be several someones out there who would hate it. It's human nature.
Looking at the FJR and VFR forums reveals that those folks are doing the same things that we do to their brand spanking new 14/15 model bikes......... changing stuff. FJR and VFR guys/gals are adding tip-over protection, seats, windshields, horns, LED lights, reflashing ECUs, adding bar risors, etc. It all sounds very familiar.
I've come to the conclusion that Honda is very much aware of the shortcomings of the ST however, there's no incentive for them to do anything, because despite all the grumblings and endless threads we're still going to continue buying, maintaining, farkling, and riding a bike that hasn't changed (significantly) during it's entire product life cycle. Looking at it from their prospective there's no need to change anything.

jonjonboo · Feb 28, 2015

Yuma ST said:
After endless threads of a similar nature I'm sure we're all well aware by now that Mother Honda in fact DOESN'T look at these threads and could probably care less about what we have to say. Despite the grumblings (and yes I too have thrown my Teddy across the room and stomped my feet) about the bike's shortcomings most of us are still riding ST1300s and will most likely continue to do so for the forseeable future. If Honda announced tomorrow that they were going to build a new ST that would come equipped with every single item listed in this thread have no doubt that there would still be several someones out there who would hate it. It's human nature.
Looking at the FJR and VFR forums reveals that those folks are doing the same things that we do to their brand spanking new 14/15 model bikes......... changing stuff. FJR and VFR guys/gals are adding tip-over protection, seats, windshields, horns, LED lights, reflashing ECUs, adding bar risors, etc. It all sounds very familiar.
I've come to the conclusion that Honda is very much aware of the shortcomings of the ST however, there's no incentive for them to do anything, because despite all the grumblings and endless threads we're still going to continue buying, maintaining, farkling, and riding a bike that hasn't changed (significantly) during it's entire product life cycle. Looking at it from their prospective there's no need to change anything.

well---- there you have it. Nothing to see here--move along,we must stop whining and teddy bear throwing. NAH!

TomStickler · Mar 1, 2015

An additional or overdrive gear will not overcome the laws of aerodynamic drag. Fuel economy at higher speeds decreases due to the drag increasing in proportion to the cube of the speed. In other words, the aero drag at 80mph is eight times the aero drag at 40mph.

Designers choose gear ratios that allow the engine to work at its most efficient design rpm at the anticipated cruising speed. In my experience, the ST1300's "sweet spot" is about 4000 rpm. Five gears are more than sufficient to accelerate at any sensible rate from stop to cruise.

Peaky little engines like a 300cc six probably need even more gears than they have to keep in the "power band", but that is not a problem suffered by the ST1300.

BamaRider · Mar 3, 2015

:BDH:

Honda ain't ever gonna change the 1300. Do they even make them anymore?

Rider33 · Mar 4, 2015

BamaRider said:
:BDH:

Honda ain't ever gonna change the 1300. Do they even make them anymore?

my horse most defiantly ain't dead:

greentreena · Mar 4, 2015

They still make them: as long as you want them in black.

1dragon · Mar 18, 2015

Love my ST1300. I would like to see the ST weigh the same as it currently does, but think of how great it would be if Honda added 2 more cylinders for a V6 that had like 75 more horsepower. If they kept the wheel base and handling the same I think that would be a riot. I know I'm nuts!

Top 3 things you like and would change about the ST

TomStickler

dc112675

BakerBoy

It's all small stuff.

st11ray

2006 ST1300

Rider33

jonjonboo

jonjonboo

st11ray

2006 ST1300

the Ferret

Daily rider since May 1965

ToddC

dduelin

Tune my heart to sing Thy grace

jonjonboo

dduelin

Tune my heart to sing Thy grace

Yuma ST

jonjonboo

TomStickler

BamaRider

Guy

Rider33

greentreena

1dragon