Potential timing belt/pulleys problem

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My lipSTick (03 ABS) has developed an engine noise, seems to be a harmonic whistle. Happens just at 2600 RPM in any any gear. I'm suspecting water pump or any of the other pulleys, or the timing belt itself. In any case, I'll be pulling all that apart in the next couple days. She's just shy of 200,000 miles, belt idler pulley were replaced several thousand miles ago.

Old STick is also down with dirty carbs. She has sat for about 8 months. Working to get her up 'n running so I can concentrate on lipSTick and have her healthy before Moonshine. Hope to see a bunch of you there.

I'll post more details as lipSTick gets stripped in the coming week. Current plan is to pull needed parts off STanley as needed.
 

John OoSTerhuis

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Good luck, my friend!

PoST pictures please. The GhOOST is due for a new belt and water pump this spring. -10F this morning. Brrrrrr. Wish I had a heated garage. Will be a DTE tomorrow to Scooter's instead of a RTE. About time to visit the Nat'l M/C Museum again.

John
 
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My lipSTick (03 ABS) has developed an engine noise, seems to be a harmonic whistle. Snip ........ She's just shy of 200,000 miles, belt idler pulley were replaced several thousand miles ago.

Snip ( again ) ........
George :

Just curious : Are you still running the original water pump ?
 

ST1100Y

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Besides the usual suspects I'd also aim attention to the cam-drive reduction gear assy; the ball-bearings as well as the tensioned front wheels driving the two cams in each head...
My '94 emits some "moan" from there; not noticed by the "average" rider or mechanic though, but clearly audible to me.
A mechanic's stethoscope might aid circling down the culprit.
 
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I've got a used water pump I pulled off my '99 a couple of years ago... has 91K on it. Was working fine, just wanted to replace it while doing the belt. Don't know if the seals are dried out by now, but you are welcome to it. PM me if interested.
 
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I just did that with my 93 at 196000. It looked like the original belt. I haven't put that many miles on it. I pulled the waterpump and pulleys from a low mileage motor with a damaged case that I had laying around. I had to pull the cross member frame piece to get the waterpump out and then in. I hadn't read that anywhere.
 
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I had to pull the cross member frame piece to get the waterpump out and then in. I hadn't read that anywhere.
on my '97 the water pump is in the front of the motor, with no frame parts in the way, just the plastic covers and the radiator. Are you sure you're talking about the water pump, or are there differences between earlier and later ST1100s?? I've never heard about this frame piece before either.
 
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Yeah mine is in the front too like all ST1100's behind the timing belt. There is a crossmember that thebottom of the radiator mounts to. I couldn't get the waterpump out without removing that piece. I didn't have room to pull the waterpump straight out. Or maybe I didn't have the patience. When I saw I could remove that frame piece I did that and had all kinds of room.
 
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Yeah mine is in the front too like all ST1100's behind the timing belt. There is a crossmember that thebottom of the radiator mounts to. I couldn't get the waterpump out without removing that piece. I didn't have room to pull the waterpump straight out. Or maybe I didn't have the patience. When I saw I could remove that frame piece I did that and had all kinds of room.
Yeah, there is a frame crossmember there in the general area, but I don't recall having to do anything special to get the pump out. But, I replaced all the other pulleys at the same time, so perhaps with those pulleys out the WP was easier to extract.
 

ST1100Y

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I had to pull the cross member frame piece to get the waterpump out and then in.
WOW! So you actually dismantled the sub-frame in order to remove the radiator?!! :shock: Only the brave... ;-)
Normally not required... whilst I would recommend removal of front wheel and fender for easier access...
And then there is the thing with the centre-panel, which needs some trimming to gain clearance in the bulge of the clutch-housing...
 
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No I removed the subframe the get the waterpump out. I don't think you can get the radiator out without removing the front wheel and fender. Just to be clear I didn't remove the subframe until I tried to remove the waterpump. Then it seemed like I didn't have room to pull the waterpump straight out far enough so I unbolted the subframe. Then I had all kinds of room. The center panel didn't need trimmed to put back in to place. However I did the trimming so if I have to do another timing belt it's done.
 
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The water pump is a very oddly shaped part and I too had great difficulty getting it out without removing something else. For me, I pulled off the left cam pulley which allowed enough wiggle room to get the pump out.
 

John OoSTerhuis

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The water pump is a very oddly shaped part and I too had great difficulty getting it out without removing something else. For me, I pulled off the left cam pulley which allowed enough wiggle room to get the pump out.
That's the way I plan to do it, based on others' reports over the years, including George's. I'll be adding the cam cover gasket to my parts list, already have a genuine new stock '91 pump sitting on the shelf. At 178K now, the Grey GhOOST will also be getting a new timing belt this spring.

John
 

ST1100Y

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I don't think you can get the radiator out without removing the front wheel and fender.
You'd have to tape a rag or piece of a fleece-blanket over the fender to prevent scratches... and its definitely not comfy to fumble around in the limited space, but when time is of essence the task is doable w/out removing the front end...

...I pulled off the left cam pulley which allowed enough wiggle room to get the pump out.
Yep, removing the pulleys is the way to go... and ending up really nervous and triple-checking that their back on with the correct torque on the bolts afterwards ;-)
 
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I removed the pulley as well, thanks for refreshing my memory.
 
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That's the way I plan to do it, based on others' reports over the years, including George's. I'll be adding the cam cover gasket to my parts list, already have a genuine new stock '91 pump sitting on the shelf. At 178K now, the Grey GhOOST will also be getting a new timing belt this spring.

John
A few more brain cells kicked in and I now remember I also had to remove the left camshaft holder. Referring to the Partzilla fiche, under "front cover", that is #23. The pulley itself was not in the way, but that camshaft holder was, so off it came too. I was not prepared to disturb and therefore replace the oil seal that is there also (#34), so I was very careful in removing that holder part and I put it back on just as carefully and had no problem with the seal leaking afterwards. You may want to order that seal also. Part #24 is not much more than a dust seal and I reused that also with no ill effect. Same with that other gasket under the holder, part #22.
 
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George
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Found my problem. Lots of removal to get the timing belt/water pump cover off:
bags; seat; vanity cover; left and right knee panels; lower cowl; left and right maintenance covers; left and right lower fairing; spark plugs; cam pulley covers. No need to pull the valve covers.

Radiator was a little bit tuff but no need to remove that lower frame piece: Drain coolant at the radiator drain; Remove L & R hoses; Remove 2 upper bolts; unplug fan wires; lift radiator up to clear lower mount point (this took a little leverage but there is enuff room.)

Timing belt cover: Remove L & R cam pulley covers (3 bolts each); Remove crank bolt cover (2 bolts) (This is just for clearance); loosen top 3 or 4 clutch cover bolts; remove 3(?) belt cover bolts. If you've never had this cover off, this part can be stiff but keep at it. Gotta get the edge of the cover at the crank bolt hole over the crank bolt. Once you have that, lift the cover straight up until you get clearance to pull the bottom edge out then wiggle a little to get it out from behind the frame tubes and down.

I followed the shop manual to remove the timing belt, but it really wasn't necessary. Problem turns out to be a "dry" bearing on the tensioner pulley. Could have removed it without removing the belt. But, I wanted to "feel" the other pulleys anyway, so... Both the idler pulley and the water pump pulley feel fine.

Anyway, here's the offending part, the tensioner pulley. I have a good spare so will start putting it back together tomorrow. I took some additional pics but they're not really worth seeing. Nothing you haven't seen before. John Oo has much better pics in one of his albums.

IMG_0184.JPG

Oh, for anyone pulling the timing belt cover for the first time, you will want to grind some "relief" on the back of the cover where it fits under the clutch cover and at the lip which hangs up getting over the crank bolt. These "mods" have no structural impact and help a lot to get the cover back into place.
 
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I don't think its necessary to loosen any of the clutch cover bolts, I didn't. Since that's an oil gasket under there, relieving the bolt tension on the gasket may result in it weeping a bit after tightening it back down. Sometimes gaskets can withstand multiple compression cycles and still seal properly, sometimes not.
 
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George
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Here's a pic of the back side of the timing belt cover. The straight, bottom edge of the crank bolt cover hole is what needs to be "relieved" to ease the install/remove. No need to modify the edge which goes under the clutch cover. Dwalby may be right about not loosening any clutch cover bolts but I've never tried it that way.

BTW, I used a Dremel to remove the material on the bottom edge of that hole. All removed material is from the rear of the cover so the integrity is still maintained when the cover is on that hole.

And, I noticed the seal in the bad tensioner pulley had gotten hot enough to melt along one edge. Very glad I caught the problem before the bearing seized. Such problems are what cause the belt to fail, followed by bent valves and other internal destruction. Keep an ear out for funny noises. (This bike has ~196,000 miles and second timing belt. I also replaced the idler pulley at 110,000 when replacing the timing belt.

Side note: Sprayed the bad part with WD-40 and worked it a little, all the stiffness disappeared and feels fine now. Possible just some crud worked it's way under the seal? Not gonna ever trust it ina bike, tho, it's in the bin now. :D

<edit> Oops, forgot the pic. :D
timing cover.jpg
 
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ST1100Y

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Very glad I caught the problem before the bearing seized. Such problems are what cause the belt to fail, followed by bent valves and other internal destruction.
...but everyone points a finger at me when I suggest to always replace both idlers with the t/belt... :confused: ;-)
 
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