Brake bleed question- do I really need a vacuum tool?

I've read all that I can find and I've got the manual. It seems that most everyone bleeds the brakes with the assistance of a vacuum tool. I've bleed brakes on a few cars in my day and always did it the old fashioned way, with someone pumping the pedal while I bleed the calipers. Is it feasible to just pump the lever and/or the rear pedal and get the bleeding on my ST1300 done that way? I'd like to get this done tomorrow and am just wondering if I really need a vacuum tool. If you guys tell me that yeah you need the tool, is there a store you can recommend that carries one? I'd rather not order one online as I'd rather not wait at this point. Thanks ahead for replies!

Re: Brake bleed questiion- do I really need a vacuum tool?

Of course you can do it manually with the help of a friend. You do have to follow the specific sequence and steps, no shortcuts.

Re: Brake bleed questiion- do I really need a vacuum tool?

Wow, you boys don't wait long on the replies, do you? It's just that pretty much everything I've read along with the manual says use the vacuum bleeder. Not much out there on doing it manually. I'd rather not order an extra tool if I really don't need one. How about bleeding the clutch, doing it without the vacuum bleeder should work too?

Re: Brake bleed questiion- do I really need a vacuum tool?

No vacuum tools are needed on the clutch either.

I find the vacuum pumps tend to force air leaks around the bleeder threads or the tubing/nipple junction.

Re: Brake bleed questiion- do I really need a vacuum tool?

Yeah, the old-school way works just fine.. it's just with this brake system you have so many bleeders that it helps to have as much help as possible to speed things up... assuming you're in a hurry of course.

Re: Brake bleed questiion- do I really need a vacuum tool?

Get one of these they work great http://www.amazon.com/Motion-Pro-08-0143-Hydraulic-Bleeder/dp/B000MXW2EM

Re: Brake bleed questiion- do I really need a vacuum tool?

v8-7 said:

No vacuum tools are needed on the clutch either.

I find the vacuum pumps tend to force air leaks around the bleeder threads or the tubing/nipple junction.

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I have read here someplace that it's easier to bleed the clutch not using a vacuum bleeder, though I haven't tried that method yet. I've always used a Mityvac that I got from Harbor Freight to bleed my brakes, no problems with it once I learned how to use it. The air leaks around the bleeder threads and/or the tubing/nipple junction go into the tubing connected to the vacuum source, not into the brake system, but since you don't know for sure where the air bubbles are coming from, you can always put a wrap of Teflon tape on the nipple threads and improve the seal on the tubing/nipple junction with a small dab of grease or brake fluid for added peace of mind. Cycle Gear also has a vacuum bleeder that looks very similar to the Mityvac for the same $40 price tag, it may be the exact same product repackaged for Cycle Gear. That's a small price to pay for the convenience of being able to do the job by yourself, and it does speed things up a bit, as Joe suggested. Another advantage of using a vacuum pump is you can use it to empty the old fluid from the master cylinder, then clean any gunk out of it and top it off with fresh brake fluid before you begin the bleeding procedure. You can do the same thing with a turkey baster, but this way you won't introduce any old brake fluid into your Thanksgiving turkey.

Re: Brake bleed questiion- do I really need a vacuum tool?

I go with the Factory Service Manual instructions and use the Mityvac vacuum to bleed the brakes. Cost is about $35 at any auto parts dealer. The reason I do this is because the motorcycle has a linked brake system that does not lend itself to a gravity based solution.

Others disagree, mostly Igofar. So, I sent Igofar my brand new MotionPro bleeder for his use.

Re: Brake bleed questiion- do I really need a vacuum tool?

970mike said:

Get one of these they work great http://www.amazon.com/Motion-Pro-08-0143-Hydraulic-Bleeder/dp/B000MXW2EM

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We used one of these at Vinny's tech event and as soon as I got home, I ordered one. Did the ST1300, my Wing, my ATV, and a couple of other bike for friends that happened to drop by. Quick and easy.

John

Re: Brake bleed questiion- do I really need a vacuum tool?

www.speedbleeder.com

Re: Brake bleed questiion- do I really need a vacuum tool?

RCS said:

I go with the Factory Service Manual instructions and use the Mityvac vacuum to bleed the brakes. Cost is about $35 at any auto parts dealer. The reason I do this is because the motorcycle has a linked brake system that does not lend itself to a gravity based solution.

Others disagree, mostly Igofar. So, I sent Igofar my brand new MotionPro bleeder for his use.

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Yes you did, and I have bled over 100 ST1300's with it so fa with outstanding results.
So once again...thank you for your generous donation to help other members.
Igofar

Re: Brake bleed questiion- do I really need a vacuum tool?

Dan50 said:

I've read all that I can find and I've got the manual. It seems that most everyone bleeds the brakes with the assistance of a vacuum tool. I've bleed brakes on a few cars in my day and always did it the old fashioned way, with someone pumping the pedal while I bleed the calipers. Is it feasible to just pump the lever and/or the rear pedal and get the bleeding on my ST1300 done that way? I'd like to get this done tomorrow and am just wondering if I really need a vacuum tool. If you guys tell me that yeah you need the tool, is there a store you can recommend that carries one? I'd rather not order one online as I'd rather not wait at this point. Thanks ahead for replies!

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If you would like to pm me a contact number I would be glad to call you on my dime and explain the procedure to you.
As far as the service manual if you read it carefully, it does not say you must use a vacume, but if you do to follow the tools mgrs instructions.

Re: Brake bleed questiion- do I really need a vacuum tool?

Igofar said:

If you would like to pm me a contact number I would be glad to call you on my dime and explain the procedure to you.
As far as the service manual if you read it carefully, it does not say you must use a vacume, but if you do to follow the tools mgrs instructions.

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Igofar,

Thanks for the offer. I sent a couple of P.M.'s but it doesn't appear they were sent as nothing shows up on my "sent" folder. Looks like I may have to tweak my settings or something. Anyhow, my cell # is 414-559-2198 if you'd care to give a call. My wife and I are going out to dinner soon but will be back around 8:00 our time which would make it after 6:00 your time I believe.

Thanks, Dan

Re: Brake bleed questiion- do I really need a vacuum tool?

Dan50 said:

Igofar, .... I sent a couple of P.M.'s but it doesn't appear they were sent as nothing shows up on my "sent" folder. Looks like I may have to tweak my settings or something

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<Brief thread hijack>Yep by default the PM system does NOT save copies of your outgoing messages to the Sent folder. You have to explicitly select the option.</Brief thread hijack>

Returning to the thread topic: I had the loca (not Honda) shop change fluids and brake pads last fall just before banishing the bike to the storage unit for the winter. When I got it back I found that the rear brake at least now needs a quick pump before it engages at the top of its travel. It certainly isn't so bad as to be non-operable but I'd much prefer that it engage immediately. Sounds liike a bleeding issue, yes?

I've also noticed that when I've been pushing the bike (not under power) I hear a slight "grinding" noise that, to me at least, sounds like brake pads rubbing the discs. The wheels spin "reasonably" freely (i.e. a revolution or two) when I push them around off the ground so I'm not overly concerned; should I be?

Re: Brake bleed questiion- do I really need a vacuum tool?

Don B said:

I have read here someplace that it's easier to bleed the clutch not using a vacuum bleeder, though I haven't tried that method yet. I've always used a Mityvac You can do the same thing with a turkey baster, but this way you won't introduce any old brake fluid into your Thanksgiving turkey.

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+1 for the Mityvac. After many years use on cars and bikes, mine developed a leak between the top and the little jar so I need to get a new O-ring. If you do use a turkey baster, be careful about drips once the bulb is fully expanded. Don't drip brake fluid on painted body parts. And retire that baster so it doesn't accidentally get used in the kitchen.

Re: Brake bleed questiion- do I really need a vacuum tool?

ibike2havefun said:

I had the loca (not Honda) shop change fluids and brake pads last fall just before banishing the bike to the storage unit for the winter. When I got it back I found that the rear brake at least now needs a quick pump before it engages at the top of its travel. It certainly isn't so bad as to be non-operable but I'd much prefer that it engage immediately. Sounds liike a bleeding issue, yes?

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Bet they didn't do it in sequence properly, tilt the SMC properly or do all of the bleeders. The PCV one to me is the most important one. I also had the same problem as you, 2 pumps on the pedal for maximum braking. Once you bleed your brakes a few times and get all of the contaminated fluid out along with the air bubbles, the pedal will firm up on the first push. At least it did for me after 3 bleed sessions. I feel it took me this long as I only used a 1/2 litre the first time. Should of not have been so cheap and used at least a bottle or a bottle and a half the first time.

ibike2havefun said:

I've also noticed that when I've been pushing the bike (not under power) I hear a slight "grinding" noise that, to me at least, sounds like brake pads rubbing the discs. The wheels spin "reasonably" freely (i.e. a revolution or two) when I push them around off the ground so I'm not overly concerned; should I be?

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This is perfectly normal. All bikes have a light rub, if you didn't, you'd have a slight hesitation when you put your brakes on as there would be to much of an air gap in between the pads and rotor.

Re: Brake bleed questiion- do I really need a vacuum tool?

Thanks, Al. Brakes being an important safety component, I'm reluctant to mess with them on my own (intimidated by the number of bleeders, and the strict process order to follow) but on the other hand I want them working at optimum capability and configuration. Guess I just have to do the learning.

Dan50 said:

Igofar,

Thanks for the offer. I sent a couple of P.M.'s but it doesn't appear they were sent as nothing shows up on my "sent" folder. Looks like I may have to tweak my settings or something. Anyhow, my cell # is 414-559-2198 if you'd care to give a call. My wife and I are going out to dinner soon but will be back around 8:00 our time which would make it after 6:00 your time I believe.

Thanks, Dan

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Pm sent sorry I missed you last night late emergency job came up.
Will call you today on white courtesy phone.

ibike2havefun said:

<Brief thread hijack>Yep by default the PM system does NOT save copies of your outgoing messages to the Sent folder. You have to explicitly select the option.</Brief thread hijack>

Returning to the thread topic: I had the loca (not Honda) shop change fluids and brake pads last fall just before banishing the bike to the storage unit for the winter. When I got it back I found that the rear brake at least now needs a quick pump before it engages at the top of its travel. It certainly isn't so bad as to be non-operable but I'd much prefer that it engage immediately. Sounds liike a bleeding issue, yes?

I've also noticed that when I've been pushing the bike (not under power) I hear a slight "grinding" noise that, to me at least, sounds like brake pads rubbing the discs. The wheels spin "reasonably" freely (i.e. a revolution or two) when I push them around off the ground so I'm not overly concerned; should I be?

Click to expand...

After I go through brake bleed sequence and system check bikes roll quietly with no scraping noise.
Sounds like you have either air left in system, or clips and or caliper or pad issues.

Re: Brake bleed questiion- do I really need a vacuum tool?

Is there a wiki for the bleed sequence?

Re: Brake bleed questiion- do I really need a vacuum tool?

Dave, see here: https://www.st-owners.com/forums/showthread.php?68913-ST1300-Brake-Fluid-Replacement