Brake bleed question- do I really need a vacuum tool?

BakerBoy · Mar 13, 2015

Re: Brake bleed questiion- do I really need a vacuum tool?

To the OP's question, no, vacuum bleeding is not required. I do full mechanical bleeds by myself (no motionpro hydraulic bleeder valve), contorting and reaching both the bleeder with a wrench and the brake lever with hand or foot. Certainly, a second person would be helpful.

I also have used the motionpro hydraulic bleeder and simply prefer the tried and true mechanical bleeds.

Bush · Mar 13, 2015

Re: Brake bleed questiion- do I really need a vacuum tool?

STDaveNW said:
www.speedbleeder.com

+1 on installing four speed speedbleeders. One man operation - easy peasy.

Igofar · Mar 13, 2015

Re: Brake bleed questiion- do I really need a vacuum tool?

Bush said:
+1 on installing four speed speedbleeders. One man operation - easy peasy.

But you would have to purchase and install 7 of them and how much would that cost?
A check valve tool (motion pro type) would only require 1 and you can use it on any vehicle.

STDaveNW · Mar 13, 2015

Re: Brake bleed questiion- do I really need a vacuum tool?

I ordered all 8 of them at $7.00 each. includes the clutch. Yes on the pro motion.
Dave

Bush · Mar 13, 2015

Re: Brake bleed questiion- do I really need a vacuum tool?

Igofar said:
But you would have to purchase and install 7 of them . . . .

Well, there you go. Learned something today. A ST1300 really has SEVEN bleed nipples??

STDaveNW said:
I ordered all 8 of them at $7.00 each.

Or does it have EIGHT?

Either way, sounds way more complicated than the 1100! Gee, another reason to still love my ST1100!

Might cost a bit initially, maybe the same as that tool mentioned, but you never have to do anything more than crack a bleeder and then close it again, once bleeding is finished. Seems that is easier than attaching some tool at every bleed point?

STDaveNW · Mar 13, 2015

Re: Brake bleed questiion- do I really need a vacuum tool?

8 including the clutch, 2 per caliper 1 proportioning valve and 1 clutch.
For as much money as we spend of stuff $56.00 plus a few $ for shipping means I won't have to go looking for or trying to remember who I loaned my vac to.

Igofar · Mar 13, 2015

Re: Brake bleed questiion- do I really need a vacuum tool?

Bush said:
Well, there you go. Learned something today. A ST1300 really has SEVEN bleed nipples??

Or does it have EIGHT?

Either way, sounds way more complicated than the 1100! Gee, another reason to still love my ST1100!

Might cost a bit initially, maybe the same as that tool mentioned, but you never have to do anything more than crack a bleeder and then close it again, once bleeding is finished. Seems that is easier than attaching some tool at every bleed point?

Ok I will play...the brake system that we were talking about has 7
The clutch system which has nothing to do with the brake system has 1
And......it has a 10mm nut, not 8mm like the brake systems nipples :rofl1:

LetErBuck · Mar 13, 2015

Re: Brake bleed questiion- do I really need a vacuum tool?

970mike said:
Get one of these they work great http://www.amazon.com/Motion-Pro-08-0143-Hydraulic-Bleeder/dp/B000MXW2EM

I use this as well ! Very simple and works great! One man job with one of these!

Bush · Mar 13, 2015

Re: Brake bleed questiion- do I really need a vacuum tool?

Igofar said:
Ok I will play...the brake system that we were talking about has 7
The clutch system which has nothing to do with the brake system has 1
And......it has a 10mm nut, not 8mm like the brake systems nipples

OK, we better stop talking about nipples now, as I'm getting a little excited!

:

Bush · Mar 13, 2015

Re: Brake bleed questiion- do I really need a vacuum tool?

LetErBuck said:
I use this as well ! Very simple and works great! One man job with one of these!

If I had known about that item back when, I probably would have gone with that, instead of 4 individual bleeders for my 1100.

Igofar · Mar 14, 2015

Re: Brake bleed questiion- do I really need a vacuum tool?

Bush said:
OK, we better stop talking about nipples now, as I'm getting a little excited!:

My favorite T-shirt .....All grown up and still fascinated by nipples :rofl1:

Dan50 · Mar 15, 2015

Re: Brake bleed questiion- do I really need a vacuum tool?

UPDATE: Finished up the brakes on Friday and everything went superbly! I did it the old fashioned way, just like every car I've ever done. With a LOT of good advice from Igofar, who was kind enough to give me a call when he wasn't wrenching on bikes. He actually walked me through every step of the bleeding procedure with plenty of tips and our conversation did not turn to nipples even once! He also called back to see how it all went after I had finished. I appreciate all of the other replies and all of suggestions for the different vacuum assist devices though and I wouldn't rule them out in the future. I found that just hooking up the old hose to the bleeder and pumping the levers seemed to work fine for myself, especially on the proportioning valve which I found drained like a champ by just pumping the rear brake lever.

Igofar and I talked a lot about servicing the bike in general and he gave me a VERY helpful tip on re-charging the preloader on the rear shock. I have to say, the bike rides A LOT smoother over the bumps now. And for anyone familiar with how the roads in the Midwest seem to heave and crack in the late Winter and early Spring, you know how you can appreciate a suspension that actually works as it was designed to!

To sum it up, huge props to Igofar for going out of his way to give me a hand. The man knows his ST's! Big thanks to all other replies too!

SMSW · Mar 15, 2015

Re: Brake bleed questiion- do I really need a vacuum tool?

Bush said:
Well, there you go. Learned something today. A ST1300 really has SEVEN bleed nipples??

Might cost a bit initially, maybe the same as that tool mentioned, but you never have to do anything more than crack a bleeder and then close it again, once bleeding is finished. Seems that is easier than attaching some tool at every bleed point?

If you use a check valve, it attaches to the same hose you slip over the bleed nipple to drain the old brake fluid (or clutch juice) into your jar/catch container. And this hose is slipped over every OEM or check valve type of nipple to direct the old fluid. So the relative ease is questionable - its the same regardless of the type of nipple.

And for those who enjoy talking about nipples, why not converse with a plumber? Their terminology positively exciting.

jonz · Mar 15, 2015

Re: Brake bleed questiion- do I really need a vacuum tool?

I haven't bled the ST1300 brakes yet but on my Chevy 2500 truck, my Mityvac didn't have quite enough power to suck out the brake fluid (the hose would just collapse and just a dribble of brake fluid came out). Guys on Diesel Place recommended this unit:

http://www.harborfreight.com/automotive-motorcycle/brakes/pneumatic-brake-fluid-bleeder-61912.html

They were happy with it and so am I. I'll be using it soon to do the ST1300 brakes which did get quite a work out on my Mexico trip.

Reginald · Mar 16, 2015

Re: Brake bleed questiion- do I really need a vacuum tool?

970mike said:
Get one of these they work great http://www.amazon.com/Motion-Pro-08-0143-Hydraulic-Bleeder/dp/B000MXW2EM

+1 Just used mine a week ago with the wife pumping the breaks. Brakes all ready for the summer rides.

Mundo · Jun 3, 2015

Re: Brake bleed questiion- do I really need a vacuum tool?

I'm going to change out the brake and clutch fluid on the Pan (13) and I intend bleeding new fluid through by hand with a non return valve rather that vacuum pump/drain and re-fill/bleed from empty.

The manual, when going through the drain and then refill procedure, talks about removing the LH front caliber and inclining the SMC through 15 degrees when bleeding/filling the proportioning control valve.

My question is, is this only necessary when draining/refilling to remove air or is there another reason entirely that requires this to be done when simply bleeding through also?

Hope that makes sense.

Peter

dduelin · Jun 3, 2015

Re: Brake bleed questiion- do I really need a vacuum tool?

Mundo said:
I'm going to change out the brake and clutch fluid on the Pan (13) and I intend bleeding new fluid through by hand with a non return valve rather that vacuum pump/drain and re-fill/bleed from empty.

The manual, when going through the drain and then refill procedure, talks about removing the LH front caliber and inclining the SMC through 15 degrees when bleeding/filling the proportioning control valve.

My question is, is this only necessary when draining/refilling to remove air or is there another reason entirely that requires this to be done when simply bleeding through also?

Hope that makes sense.

Peter

I'm not sure I understand your question. If you are intent on flushing the brake system and refilling with new fluid you do have to tilt the LF front caliper due to it's downward orientation and position of the inlet hose above the outlet hose. If you don't tilt it up it's impossible to push air bubbles downhill through the SMC and hence impossible to bleed the SMC circuit that applies pressure to the rear caliper.

Mundo · Jun 3, 2015

Re: Brake bleed questiion- do I really need a vacuum tool?

dduelin said:
I'm not sure I understand your question. If you are intent on flushing the brake system and refilling with new fluid you do have to tilt the LF front caliper due to it's downward orientation and position of the inlet hose above the outlet hose. If you don't tilt it up it's impossible to push air bubbles downhill through the SMC and hence impossible to bleed the SMC circuit that applies pressure to the rear caliper.

Maybe its a transatlantic thing. I'm not introducing air, just bleeding through fresh fluid so you have answered my question. I'll not bother removing the SMC.

Peter

dduelin · Jun 3, 2015

Re: Brake bleed questiion- do I really need a vacuum tool?

Mundo said:
Maybe its a transatlantic thing. I'm not introducing air, just bleeding through fresh fluid so you have answered my question. I'll not bother removing the SMC.

Peter

No one that knows what they are doing introduces air into the system when flushing the brake system. That's the same on both sides of the Atlantic. Whether you suck it through or pump it through as longs as you keep fluid in the reservoir you'll not introduce air.

The problem is this circuit is very long, the longest on the bike, and it runs through the proportioning control valve mounted on the RH frame member above the engine. The lines and PCV get very hot when the bike is ridden. As you know heat like this creates tiny micro bubbles in brake fluid which over time concentrates and traps moisture. The PCV is at the highest point in the circuit and it's possible to pump fresh new fluid through it then out of the SMC then out of the rear caliper without removing the bubble(s) of moist air either in your PCV or SMC.

The ST1300's LBS system is been in service 13 years and it's well known the shortcut of not removing the SMC as directed leaves air in the system because it gets trapped in the SMC. No sense re-inventing the wheel here and it takes but a few minutes to remove and tilt the caliper to get the job done. Otherwise it's a waste of time and the rear pedal will either be soft or have the pedal drop after trailing off hand lever.

Mundo · Jun 4, 2015

Re: Brake bleed questiion- do I really need a vacuum tool?

Thank you. I've the wheel out anyway today so I'll leave the caliper off until the weekend when my Motion Pro bleeder hopefully arrives.

Peter

Brake bleed question- do I really need a vacuum tool?

BakerBoy

It's all small stuff.

Bush

Igofar

STDaveNW

Dave

Bush

STDaveNW

Dave

Igofar

LetErBuck

Brian Oehlert

Bush

Bush

Igofar

Dan50

SMSW

jonz

Reginald

cyclepoke

Mundo

dduelin

Tune my heart to sing Thy grace

Mundo

dduelin

Tune my heart to sing Thy grace

Mundo