Overfilled motoroil on my ST1300...

BakerBoy

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To the OP, many overworry about overfilling... or what brand or viscosity...

I wouldn't be concerned if it had say, 4.5 quarts. I have overfilled mine--within seconds of startup, the oil is no longer visible in the sight glass. And it didn't blow up after running a whole campaign with some extra oil in the crankcase, nor has it failed in some related way many years later. I'm now in the habit of pouring in 1 gallon and not worrying about it (as long as I see oil through the sight glass).

Consider that it takes a minute or two for the majority of oil to return to the sump after shutting down the engine to be visible in the sight glass (yet it only takes seconds to pump the oil out of the pan). What happens before the oil dribbles back into the pan?? (Rhetorical question). The oil pump has pumped most of the available oil up (therefore, draws some air in), and my opinion is a extra few ounces of oil in the crankcase doesn't have negative consequence (the crank/rods don't splash in it, except perhaps the first few seconds when starting up the engine). On the contrary, having less time that the oil pump draws in air is likely better.

So, I can envision someone asking: Why doesn't Honda recommend more oil than 4QT? Because they've decided 4QT is good enough (and is of a commercially common available size increment: the quart).

My guess is that the engine does just fine with 5QT in it, perhaps even 6QT. But I've no need to try to increase volume to cause a failure. :)

But it's your engine, so you decide whether a few ounces over 4QT is too much.

A related point: the slight less air volume in the crankcase (slight increased oil volume) does not cause more internal pressure in the crankcase. Regardless of oil volume, the temperature of the air in the crankcase still stabilizes at the same temperature, but there's less mass of air to expand (as it was displaced by slightly more oil volume). Even if the ST crankcase were a sealed vessel, air pressure in the crankcase would be actually slightly less with more oil. But the point is moot: the ST uses crankcase gas recirculation and uses a non-sealed crankcase. Hoses pull the oil-misty crankcase air from the valve covers up into the air box for consumption as fuel. Many of us find oil in our airboxes where that hose connects.

:)
 

Blrfl

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My guess is that the engine does just fine with 5QT in it, perhaps even 6QT.
It'll all be fun and games until you've added enough that the contents of the sump come into contact with the crankshaft, which will proceed to whip it into a nice foam. Foam has lots of air in it, and your oil pump is pretty terrible at pumping air.

--Mark
 

Reginald

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what is the air box blow by
As Bakerboy said "Hoses pull the oil-misty crankcase air from the valve covers up into the air box for consumption as fuel. Many of us find oil in our airboxes where that hose connects". You'll see them on your car too. I had more oil in the airbox than I've had before or since, but it wasn't serious. It was similar to a light misting of oil on most everything in the airbox. Normally it's only near the breather hose.

Quote from http://auto.howstuffworks.com/positive-crankcase-ventilation-system.htm "this is where crankcase ventilation comes in -- a certain amount of that mixture of air and gasoline is pulled down by the piston and slips through the piston rings into the crankcase, which is the protective cover that insulates the crankshaft. This escaping gas is called blow-by and it's unavoidable. It's also undesirable because the unburned gasoline in it can gunk up the system and produce problems in the crankcase. Until the early 1960s, these blow-by gases were removed simply by letting air circulate freely through the crankcase, wafting away the gases and venting them as emissions. Then, in the early 1960s, positive crankshaft ventilation (PCV) was invented. This is now considered the beginning of automobile emission control."
 
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Need some opinions on this.

As I mentioned in an earlier post, I noticed a ticking sound as well during idling after I changed my oil this past sunday and then I read this thread. That got me intrigued about how closely we have to follow the owners manual in changing and checking oil. Here is chronology of events.

Sunday 4-24-16. I did the filter and oil change and added 4 qts right away. Then I took the bike for a ten mile spin to let the oil circulate etc. Came back and checked it after 10 minutes (owners manual say 2-3 minutes). The level was a little below the midpoint between the upper and lower marks. So I added a little more and brought it just below the upper mark.

Tuesday 4-26-16. I read this thread and the emphasis placed on following the manual in checking the oil level. I decided to follow the owners manual in checking the oil, to see what happens. I checked the oil level with the engine cold. It was where I left it on sunday evening. Then I started the bike and let it idle for 5 mins, stopped the engine and checked the level after 3 mins. To my amazement the level had fallen below to when the bike was cold 8 mins earlier. I came back and checked the level after 10, 20 and 30 minutes and it stayed below the level when it was cold. Based on this I should add more and more importantly where did the oil disappear. Does someone have an insight in this. Thanks.
 

Blrfl

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I decided to follow the owners manual in checking the oil, to see what happens. I checked the oil level with the engine cold. It was where I left it on sunday evening. Then I started the bike and let it idle for 5 mins, stopped the engine and checked the level after 3 mins. To my amazement the level had fallen below to when the bike was cold 8 mins earlier. I came back and checked the level after 10, 20 and 30 minutes and it stayed below the level when it was cold. Based on this I should add more ...
That depends. Was the oil below the low-level mark in the sight glass?

... and more importantly where did the oil disappear.
It's right where you want it: all over the insides of the engine. It takes quite awhile for it to run back into the sump, and how long depends on a lot of factors.

Four quarts when you do a filter change is the right amount for a healthy bike and should get you correct readings when you check the oil.

--Mark
 

BakerBoy

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Don't forget that slight slope of the floor (side to side AND back to front), engine temperature conditions, and oil level all affect the visual oil level. Also, the ST1300 has two oil pan sumps. The front one is smaller and does not have a sight gage...none of us know how much oil happens to pool there.

1 gallon and don't worry.
 
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No slope changes. Everything was the same (bike never moved). Not worried, just trying to get to the bottom of this. I believe the procedure in the manual may not be the best. The 3-5 minute warm up time specified in the manual is not enough to get the engine warmed up properly. Do you know if the oil gets drained from both pans during changing.
 

BakerBoy

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This fiche diagram shows the forward compartment in the oil pan, along with forward compartment's the oil 'scavenger' line (ie, it does not gravity drain into the main oil pan compartment): http://www.ronayersmotorcycles.com/fiche_section_detail.asp?section=4435946&category=Motorcycles&make=Honda&year=2004&fveh=192318

Notice that the main oil compartment is sloped and shaped to funnel the oil to the oil pump inlet--that is done solely because the oil is fully distributed in the engine during normal operation, and there's only small amounts of oil present in the pan at any moment.

I'm not sure whether the oil pump 'empties' the forward compartment first nor whether that forward compartment fills up first once the engine is shut off. But I'd guess it holds on the order of 1 to 2 cups (1/4 to 1/2 quart)... someone may chime in if they've had the pan off and happened to measure the volume.
 

Blrfl

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The oil was near the upper mark of the sight glass when I checked it cold.
Cold doesn't matter. Where was it when you checked a few minutes after shutting down a warm engine?

I believe the procedure in the manual may not be the best. The 3-5 minute warm up time specified in the manual is not enough to get the engine warmed up properly.
I'm not sure I understand the basis for that or what problem you're trying to solve by changing how you do the level check. The procedure in the manual has been in use by thousands of us for 14 years (26 if you count the 1100, which had the same design and procedure) with no lubrication-related problems. The amount of oil in the system doesn't have to be laboratory-precise for it to do its job. If you do a by-the-book level check and find it anywhere between the marks (which, by the way, are at least two inches above the bottom of the sump), you have enough oil.

Do you know if the oil gets drained from both pans during changing.
It doesn't. The only way oil comes out of the clutch sump is through the intake strainer. It can't be allowed to run into the main sump because the debris from a disintegrated clutch pack would clog the main intake, starve the engine and do all sorts of damage.

--Mark
 
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Cold doesn't matter. Where was it when you checked a few minutes after shutting down a warm engine? It was between the two marks.


I'm not sure I understand the basis for that or what problem you're trying to solve by changing how you do the level check. The procedure in the manual has been in use by thousands of us for 14 years (26 if you count the 1100, which had the same design and procedure) with no lubrication-related problems. The amount of oil in the system doesn't have to be laboratory-precise for it to do its job. If you do a by-the-book level check and find it anywhere between the marks (which, by the way, are at least two inches above the bottom of the sump), you have enough oil.

I'm not getting the same level each time I shut off the engine . I guess I'm reading too much into this. Thanks for the input.

 
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I noticed today that there were 3 or 4 bubbles in the sight glass, when i checked the oil. Is that reason for concern or is it indicative of something.
 
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Bubbles are a sign of oil foaming, usually caused by the transmission gears. Likely not to worry about, unless the foaming is excessive, which can lead to a loss in oil pressure. Maybe that Valvoline oil is not suitable in an engine with the transmission gears also lubed by the engine oil?
 
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Thats a good thought. This is the first time Ive used valvoline. I will switch back to honda oil and see if there is a difference.
 
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Thats a good thought. This is the first time Ive used valvoline. I will switch back to honda oil and see if there is a difference.
just curious, did you use a motorcycle specific Valvoline oil? Not that it would make any difference in your current question regarding the appropriate level, just that the motorcycle specific oil will have a longer service life because it should contain additives that will resist the shearing forces from the transmission gears. Not positive, but usually any 10w-40 oil will not be the "energy conserving" type that isn't compatible with motorcycle wet clutches (look for those words somewhere on the label. if it says "energy conserving" that's not good) Honda oil is not magical, and the folks at Valvoline have had a few tries at the motor oil business so they might just know what they're doing too.
 
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How does it commpare to the Honda motorcycle oil. or is either better than the other
Use bike spec'ed oil, as suggested by the manufacturer...or newer spec if the bike is so old the spec is out of production. Synthetic or not. Use the weights that correspond with the manufacturer's suggestion for ambient temperature ranges. Change the oil and filter according the manufacturers suggestion. The only real difference will then be opinion.
 
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