Falken 612 Plus - Darkside Dragon Testing

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I want to do a longish trip either this summer or next and the only limiting factor is the best rear mileage I can get out of my favorite M/C rear tire (T30) is about 5K, and that was a fluke due to the type of miles. My usual rear tire mileage up in the mountains is 2,800 miles or 1,800 if I play rough. So for a whopping $88 I picked up a 205/50/17 from Discount tire and nomar-ed the thing on...1 mm at a time...somewhat difficult install.

500 miles of testing later says it can get the job done and it has not ruined my riding experience. The stray wiggles and steering oddities sap a bit of confidence at first but it is all manageable and I adapted quickly. I suspect the tire is not the best choice for mileage but it was readily available and I followed Yellow Wolf last summer for a lot of miles so I knew it stuck; it is for CT feedback only. I have a new Cogent front suspension with Ohlins valving and a new Penske rear shock with special order ride height which I maxed out and have gradually lowered to something(?) higher than stock. The ride height is an important note as the bike has much more lean angle than stock so I have some concern, even with a M/C tire, that I could lean the ST to an angle it should not go without touching hard parts. So far I have leaned it to boot touch-down with the Falken and no issues.

Strange thing with the car tire is if I just tool along at the speed limit I notice the slightly (actually feels just like Michelin PR2s to me) heavier steering and I feel all sorts of little "things" that remind me I am on a CT. If I ride aggressively the car tire disappears and the slightly heavier steering acts like a lightly weighted power steering system and in no way detracts from the total package. My new ride height and suspension set-up makes the ST a very quick steering bike so I suspect it still turns easier than most large sport touring bikes.

I should be putting a lot of miles quickly on this tire and I don't expect it to last long so I will try and keep this site informed on my test observations.

Some action shots, very similar to what a lot of you have already posted many times.

Darkside 2.jpgST Darkside 1.jpg

KEB
 
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1 week and 650 miles later I finished my ST1300 darkside testing, testing that was prompted by the fact I wanted to find a tire that I could cross the country on and still have fun along the way. I deemed the rear car tire is unsafe on my bike due to the fact the front tire would push in low speed and/or minimal lean angle turns. I am running a T-30 Bridgestone which has never given me any issues in any situation before the car tire. On three occasions while I was testing on some steep downhill 180 degree switchbacks (Montvale Road coming off the Foothills Parkway/Flats Road toward Maryville for anyone familiar with the area) I was able to get the front tire to break completely free and just skid across the pavement. This is definitely a car tire thing and not something I make happen with a M/C rear tire and the increased traction from the rear tire is one of the dominant traits of the rear CT.

I forgot to take the tread depth when I installed Falken (rookie mistake) but the ending center tread depth was 8/32. I would think the depth was 10/32 new so if true it looks like it would have lasted 3K miles to no tread. If I ran a rear T-30 at the pace I kept the Falken at I would expect maybe 1,800 miles before the sides would be gone so a CT would seem to last longer. Not a surprise.

Earlier in the day I had been visiting a friends campsite that was mostly wet mud. When I went to leave the rear tire hooked up with no slipping and the front would plow when the bars were turned and the bike would not turn unless I went extremely slow. The bike was remarkably stable it just would not turn under power. while riding the mountains I could feel the bike always going a little wider in the turns with the CT unless I was testing the limits and then it seemed to turn very similar to my usual T-30's. The downside of picking up the pace was the wide variety of wiggles that emanated from the rear whenever the throttle was used mid corner, especially any on/ff throttle application.

I removed the tire last night and re-installed my Bridgestone T-30 GT. Took it for a spin and the bike was easier to turn and it carved slightly tighter lines. I spent most of my time testing the Falken at a sporting pace in the mountains. The average pace that would normally have the pegs dragging in the 40 to 50 mph stuff but my Penske shock is adjusted for increased ride height. I managed to touch a peg a time or three when I was exploring the limits of the tire on roads like the dragon. I did a number of Dragon runs which is usually a great way for me to judge a tire. I was able to hold a decent pace with the CT and I still enjoyed the ST with the Falken on the back but at the end of the day I prefer the consistently lighter steering, tighter handling and overall less drama of of Bridgestone T-30s.

Back to testing tires in the deals Gap area. Saw a few ST1300s this past weekend, wished I had had the time to say hello.

KEB
 
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[QUOTE;1842687]Boy, you are in a great area to prove a tire..."just drop by the Dragon!" Interesting what you said about the CT, but like oils, everyone has their own taste.. What pressures do you run in the T-30 GT, I have been running nothing but PR4's and am very happy with them, especially in the wet, but always looking....Thank for the post.[/QUOTE]

You're welcome Valkman. Tires and oil are a little different in that a tires performance is immediately apparent and a little less subjective when they are truly tested. And when you have a test facility like I do you really get to know a tire. I have written a lot of tire reports in the past that give my honest opinion on how a tire performs but I am sure only my riding friends actually read them with any interest. Since I usually shred tires in less than 2K miles I get to test a lot of em.

The PR4s are a sweet tire. We ran a set on the Tiger 800 (really the Pilot Road 4 trail which is really just a PR4 street with a smaller section of soft rubber on the edge). They were a nice upgrade to the PR3s mileage wise as they really did last about 20% longer. PR3s and 4s are the very best rain tire I have ever used and the 4s were more cup resistant for us. The T-30s last a little longer and the single compound front is extremely durable. We have over 9,000 miles on the Tiger's front T-30 right now and the profile is nearly perfect and it turns and steers great. A rear T-30 goes 7K on the Tiger no problem. These are all Donna's miles but she is consistent and not slow.

I can destroy a T-30 front in 3K on the ST or still have SOME fun and get over 7K out of one. I get from 1,800 to 5K out of a rear T-30 (all GTs) on the ST, just depends on who I may be riding with at the time. Truth is I only have 500 miles on my current T-30 GTs and if I kept treating them like I have lately they would only make another 500. I only had one set of Michelins on the ST and they were never right for my riding style. The soft carcass Michelins just don't hold up well for me. I usually run max sidewall pressures to keep heat down but I tried everything with Michelins and they just would not stay consistent. I got along just OK with the PR2/PP2ct combo on my VFR but they would lose their steering precision at about 1,000 miles due to uneven wear. The S20s wore faster but gave more "good" miles than the Michelins. I will say the Michelin Pilot Road 2 was the first reasonably grippy tire that could rack up some miles on the VFR.

The new generation of Bridgestones, The S20 and T-30 models are some of the best tires I have used for sport and sport touring. The S20 was eclipsed by the Dunlop Q3 which is my personal go-to sport bike tire and nothing touches the T-30 for my riding style. I wish they would make a single compound rear T-30 that grips and wears like the front. I have never had an issue with the T-30s in the wet but I don't darg pegs in the wet like I do with the PR4s on the Tiger (or Angel GTs on the VFR).

We have lost 3 of our last 4 PR3s to punctures and so far no punctures with the T-30s (knock on wood). I really dislike mounting the T-30's GTs on the ST but I also like the fact they have such a rugged carcass. The Michelins are extremely soft and when I think of 1,000 pounds of rider and machine hustling down down some mountain road I like knowing the T-30 GT is under me taking the punishment. That is a subjective comment.

If you like em ride em. If the limits of your equipment gives you all the fun you need then you win!

KEB
 

dduelin

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You're welcome Valkman. Tires and oil are a little different in that a tires performance is immediately apparent and a little less subjective when they are truly tested. And when you have a test facility like I do you really get to know a tire. I have written a lot of tire reports in the past that give my honest opinion on how a tire performs but I am sure only my riding friends actually read them with any interest. Since I usually shred tires in less than 2K miles I get to test a lot of em.

The PR4s are a sweet tire. We ran a set on the Tiger 800 (really the Pilot Road 4 trail which is really just a PR4 street with a smaller section of soft rubber on the edge). They were a nice upgrade to the PR3s mileage wise as they really did last about 20% longer. PR3s and 4s are the very best rain tire I have ever used and the 4s were more cup resistant for us. The T-30s last a little longer and the single compound front is extremely durable. We have over 9,000 miles on the Tiger's front T-30 right now and the profile is nearly perfect and it turns and steers great. A rear T-30 goes 7K on the Tiger no problem. These are all Donna's miles but she is consistent and not slow.

I can destroy a T-30 front in 3K on the ST or still have SOME fun and get over 7K out of one. I get from 1,800 to 5K out of a rear T-30 (all GTs) on the ST, just depends on who I may be riding with at the time. Truth is I only have 500 miles on my current T-30 GTs and if I kept treating them like I have lately they would only make another 500. I only had one set of Michelins on the ST and they were never right for my riding style. The soft carcass Michelins just don't hold up well for me. I usually run max sidewall pressures to keep heat down but I tried everything with Michelins and they just would not stay consistent. I got along just OK with the PR2/PP2ct combo on my VFR but they would lose their steering precision at about 1,000 miles due to uneven wear. The S20s wore faster but gave more "good" miles than the Michelins. I will say the Michelin Pilot Road 2 was the first reasonably grippy tire that could rack up some miles on the VFR.

The new generation of Bridgestones, The S20 and T-30 models are some of the best tires I have used for sport and sport touring. The S20 was eclipsed by the Dunlop Q3 which is my personal go-to sport bike tire and nothing touches the T-30 for my riding style. I wish they would make a single compound rear T-30 that grips and wears like the front. I have never had an issue with the T-30s in the wet but I don't darg pegs in the wet like I do with the PR4s on the Tiger (or Angel GTs on the VFR).

We have lost 3 of our last 4 PR3s to punctures and so far no punctures with the T-30s (knock on wood). I really dislike mounting the T-30's GTs on the ST but I also like the fact they have such a rugged carcass. The Michelins are extremely soft and when I think of 1,000 pounds of rider and machine hustling down down some mountain road I like knowing the T-30 GT is under me taking the punishment. That is a subjective comment.

If you like em ride em. If the limits of your equipment gives you all the fun you need then you win!

KEB
You had me worried there for a while running the car tire. I know how you ride and since the CT is, well..., a car tire, I was wondering how that was going to turn out. Like you I have never gotten on with Pilot Roads on my ST. They just don't set and hold a line for me and while never lacking for grip they just don't communicate what's going on down there in the contact patch. Vague and numb kind of sums it up for me. The BT023s and now T30s are my favorite ST tire. I'm taking a chance on Michelins again though and have a new set of Anakee 3s waiting to put on the Tiger. They have good reviews on the Tiger forums but I hope they don't have the same lack of feedback. I'll regret it a long time as they seem to last forever on Tigers. I wanted to try another 90/10 tire over the 100% road use T30 for the occasional gravel or dirt road in the mountains.
 
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The T-30s on the Tiger is all the tire you will ever need. Great price, fantastic performance and superb wear. On paper the Anakee 3s are a great tire for the Tiger but probably wear quicker and definitely cost more. No contest if you plan on venturing off road, Anakees all the way.

Tiger Forum is pretty weak compared to this and the NC forums eh? I really despise generalizing but it is hard not to wonder just how the hell a brit even finds the keys to his bike, let alone rides it. Love the stories that deride a dealer because they didn't adjust the clutch cable just so, even after 3 visits, because if you so much as lay a spanner on the seat the warranty is void. There is some valuable info amongst the mundane posts but if you need to know about tires you know who to ask my friend. You have seen the bottom side of my Tiger no? You don't grind that much metal off without learning a thing or two about which tires work on the T800.
 

dduelin

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Yes, I know the T30s are the dogs dangles but I wanted to try the Anakees anyway. I don't grind the roads you do every weekend and wanted a 90/10 which the T30s aren't. They [Anakees] are supposed to last a long time and the brits do deal with a lot of wet weather and the Michelins are reported to do great in the wet too. They were $70 a set more than T30s.
 
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I'm wondering if the handling would have felt improved to you by running double dark. Many, myself included, have voiced opinions that putting a BT45 on the front bring back the handling that was lost by adding the CT. I wouldn't suggest you trying it now that you already removed the CT, but it was my first thought when I read that you were still running a front tire on the front. FWIW I enjoy the corners myself, and left a bit of my pegs on the Dragon running a Hankook/BT45 combo. I wish I could run the double dark setup at a track day to get some more enthusiastic testing in a safe traffic free environment.

I will admit I had a front tire push on me once, almost exactly a year ago. Going downhill on a PA twisty road. Somewhat cool temps and a moist (thought not soaked) road. I was pushing it pretty hard though, and I think it was the combination of moisture and different pavement compound used in more southern states that helped cause the push. I was lucky my dirt riding days left me with quick instincts. Left foot hit the ground before the tire pushed far and helped get me back up. I still have a big worn patch on my boot sole from that!
 
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I'm wondering if the handling would have felt improved to you by running double dark. Many, myself included, have voiced opinions that putting a BT45 on the front bring back the handling that was lost by adding the CT. I wouldn't suggest you trying it now that you already removed the CT, but it was my first thought when I read that you were still running a front tire on the front. FWIW I enjoy the corners myself, and left a bit of my pegs on the Dragon running a Hankook/BT45 combo. I wish I could run the double dark setup at a track day to get some more enthusiastic testing in a safe traffic free environment.

I will admit I had a front tire push on me once, almost exactly a year ago. Going downhill on a PA twisty road. Somewhat cool temps and a moist (thought not soaked) road. I was pushing it pretty hard though, and I think it was the combination of moisture and different pavement compound used in more southern states that helped cause the push. I was lucky my dirt riding days left me with quick instincts. Left foot hit the ground before the tire pushed far and helped get me back up. I still have a big worn patch on my boot sole from that!
Funny feeling when the car tire pushed the front the rear just wanted to keep the bike upright which is different than how the bike reacts with m/c tires. In a right turn I would be extra careful to prevent pushing into the oncoming traffic. I had fun with the Falken as the riding experience was unique but I need every last bit of grip and steering feedback I can get and the m/c combo does it for me. It always comes down to staying in the limits of your equipment.

Double dark was where I was headed if I liked the rear NHD. I spent a lot of time researching the darkside and your feedback was most invaluable. I only tried the one option and it was after installing new suspension and a revised geometry which was installed to improve comfort and to keep the pegs, lower cowl, brake pedal, and centerstand off the deck. I still get a light touch from the pegs occasionally even though they are razor sharp, thin strips of aluminum on the edges. I dropped the rear during the final stages of testing and it still pushed the front, maybe even more so I don't think geometry was the problem.

I am very happy with my Cogent/Ohlins front and Penske rear and I will do a detailed write-up on that set-up soon. I had a great time running through NH last summer, some of the prettiest scenery of the trip. The Balsam area as we were crossing into Maine was simply breathtaking I could do that again and I may this summer if I decide to head back up and see my sister in Maine again. Prettier than the Kankamagus to my eye but I may have blurred the lines a little on that downhill section...
 
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Yes, I know the T30s are the dogs dangles but I wanted to try the Anakees anyway. I don't grind the roads you do every weekend and wanted a 90/10 which the T30s aren't. They [Anakees] are supposed to last a long time and the brits do deal with a lot of wet weather and the Michelins are reported to do great in the wet too. They were $70 a set more than T30s.
I really never try and tell anyone what tire to run, I was just being a punk. Let me know how those Anakee 3's are Dave. They are very much loved in this area by the high mileage ADV types.
 
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You're welcome Valkman. Tires and oil are a little different in that a tires performance is immediately apparent and a little less subjective when they are truly tested. And when you have a test facility like I do you really get to know a tire. I have written a lot of tire reports in the past that give my honest opinion on how a tire performs but I am sure only my riding friends actually read them with any interest. Since I usually shred tires in less than 2K miles I get to test a lot of em.KEB
You are not entirely correct here. A lot of members read these posts. When I was looking for tires I read everything I could on this (and other) site(s). I selected my current tires based on these riders' evaluations. While I don't push the limits nor do I put on high miles like some riders, and it is likely that any tire designed for the ST would be acceptable to me, I have confidence in what I chose because of the criteria I valued and others' reports.

I read this whole thread and enjoyed doing so. It confirmed what I suspected about car tires - that they are probably ok for riders who don't push the handling limits but cannot provide the feel and handling for which motorcycles are designed.

So, keep writing your reviews here, I'll be looking for them.
 
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You are not entirely correct here. A lot of members read these posts. When I was looking for tires I read everything I could on this (and other) site(s). I selected my current tires based on these riders' evaluations. While I don't push the limits nor do I put on high miles like some riders, and it is likely that any tire designed for the ST would be acceptable to me, I have confidence in what I chose because of the criteria I valued and others' reports.

I read this whole thread and enjoyed doing so. It confirmed what I suspected about car tires - that they are probably ok for riders who don't push the handling limits but cannot provide the feel and handling for which motorcycles are designed.

So, keep writing your reviews here, I'll be looking for them.
Well thanks for the vote of confidence SMSW. I don't write as many reports as I used to when I rode sportbikes and the VFR and I have quit testing every new tire that comes out. I changed my "sport bikes" to a Honda NC700x and a Honda CB500F. The less powerful bikes both have enhanced suspensions/geometries and I run them at an entertaining pace through the mountains. I experience the exact same wear rates but the lower power bikes will not truly test all facets of a tire so I stay out of most sport tire discussions now. I made one exception lately for the Dunlop Q3 since I regularly ride with friends that have high HP bikes and our take on the Q3s is they are clearly the best overall sport tire value and they perform as well as anything in their class. I am on my third set for the NC and I have 2 more sets in the tire closet. I am running S20s on the CB but I will be changing over to trackday rubber this summer for playing on the dragon. The low powered bikes are both solid handling and all day comfortable and their ease of use and low maintenance really lets me just enjoy being in the wind.

I like the new stuff that's available and I love high performance equipment but at the end of the day I want get home in one piece, not hurt anyone and just enjoy leaning into the wind. Led a ride the other day on the NC with a ZX10 and a BMW HP4. They followed the CB for about 35 miles and they were blown away at how much fun the pace was. I would carry slightly higher corner speed and the would use their higher power to close the gap but with the CB's speed being the limiting factor they could brake from a more comfortable speed and have a few extra moments to set up for the turns.

I feed the Tiger a steady diet of T30s because the price/grip/handling/steering/wear/puncture resistance is so good. Now if Dduelin gets 20K out of the Anakees I may have to do some research. The ST will get T30s for life or until Bridgestone or someone makes a better overall tire. I go with Bridgestone right now because they have really upped their game in the last few years, seems since they became the MototGP spec tire.
 
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Looks like Killboy caught the Falken getting a little wiggly. Sometimes I would get a pretty good squiggle when I got on the gas with shallow lean angle.

ST Darkside Tire Wiggle.jpg
 
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During your 'Testing' of the C/T you never mention what PSI you were running at the time. Also, with the upgrade to your suspension, how is you bike set up as far as weight distribution front and rear? Made me curious as to the tight downhill you were doing when you said the front broke loose. Could this have been due to several different factors, such as, the suspension upgrade/ride height of front to rear and weight distribution due to ride height. Was the front already past it's prime at that time due to how you ride so aggressively? I have found that different front M/C tires and rear C/T combo's work better that others. Some Front M/C tires dominate the C/T tire and vice verse. Since you only tested one C/T brand I am not so sure the testing was fair enough to C/T performance on a bike. It was a good review but needs more testing on other tires and setups. I am running the T-30 front with my Hankook C/T and this combo works well for me. I have run some hard corners, and surely not as hard as you, with out any front end slide.
 
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Fair enough questions. I had a 500 mile T-30 on the front. I ran the rear ride height at several points during during the week (I can change the Penske RH in about 30 minutes but is still a pain) and right after re-installing the M/C tire I took it out and there was no front end push. For the record all ride height settings were higher than stock. Of course the CT changes the geometry at lean due to the profile so there is a chance the push could be mitigated with stock or relaxed ride height. I tried 28 to 48 psi and settled on 44 in my limited time. To me the handling improved as I dropped the ride height but I stopped once I started dragging pegs (my pegs live on the ground will all my bikes, I wear them out like tires)

I really tested the tire at a pace that would strip a T-30 of its side tread in 1,500 miles or less. Out of the 650 miles maybe 200 of them were "normal" pace. I do better with the T-30 set primarily because I love the ultra light steering, something I could not replicate with the Falken. I am not a darkside expert but I am a M/C tire expert and I have the means to afford what makes me smile the most so T-30s for now. If I ever buy a wing I suspect darksiding is in my future.

Quick side track...I have always wanted an ST since the first 1100, even when I was on a sport bike I loved the idea of owning one. I have never wanted a Goldwing.
 
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Thanks for the link from the Killboy thread, kebrider. I don't ride enough to consider anything other than my T30 but it is interesting to see this write up. I always assumed a car tire was only good in the quarter mile.
 
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Thanks for the link from the Killboy thread, kebrider. I don't ride enough to consider anything other than my T30 but it is interesting to see this write up. I always assumed a car tire was only good in the quarter mile.

Hard to beat the T-30 GT on the ST. As intriguing as 30,000 mile tire life is I will keep boosting Bridgestone tire sales. Wish they would make a single compound rear that wears and grips like the T-30 font and I could probably get 7K worth of sweet miles out that set.

KEB
 
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