Starter Relay

Well...was hoping to go for a ride today. Jumped on the bike, turned the key, as usual the lights came on but as soon as I hit the starter button everything went dead.

I referenced the ST threads relating to this and it appears that the major culprit is the starter relay...along with a coincidental corroded or melted "red" wire at the #4 post on the relay connector.

Below you'll see pics of the connector (found to the left of the battery as you're looking at the battery). Certainly there was some corrosion, but no melted wire. I was eventually able to remove the crimped red wire connector, but there was no melting or any corrosion on the crimped female connector (not shown). It was difficult to remove and I've done some damage to the red connector plastic piece, but nothing that will prevent me from using it again. I've seen a few pics where this piece has even been removed entirely with the connectors going on directly to the starter relay with loads of electrical tape ensuring their individual electrical sovereignty. So, either way may work for me.

I'll be ordering a starter relay on Monday.

For the sake of the ST crowd's wisdom here, might there be any other area I might look a now?...or should I wait to get this relay replaced first...eliminating the likely source of the problem, and if not, then going to the next likely spot. Thing is, I'm not certain what's next likely spot is if this new starter relay doesn't fix things.

If you have any suggestions, please post!

You might consider doing the Ignition Bypass Modification. A wiring schematic is shown at the bottom of the link. I did this on my ST1100 several years and I haven't had any problems.

Johnny Canuck said:

Well...was hoping to go for a ride today. Jumped on the bike, turned the key, as usual the lights came on but as soon as I hit the starter button everything went dead.

I referenced the ST threads relating to this and it appears that the major culprit is the starter relay...along with a coincidental corroded or melted "red" wire at the #4 post on the relay connector.

Below you'll see pics of the connector (found to the left of the battery as you're looking at the battery). Certainly there was some corrosion, but no melted wire. I was eventually able to remove the crimped red wire connector, but there was no melting or any corrosion on the crimped female connector (not shown). It was difficult to remove and I've done some damage to the red connector plastic piece, but nothing that will prevent me from using it again. I've seen a few pics where this piece has even been removed entirely with the connectors going on directly to the starter relay with loads of electrical tape ensuring their individual electrical sovereignty. So, either way may work for me.

I'll be ordering a starter relay on Monday.

For the sake of the ST crowd's wisdom here, might there be any other area I might look a now?...or should I wait to get this relay replaced first...eliminating the likely source of the problem, and if not, then going to the next likely spot. Thing is, I'm not certain what's next likely spot is if this new starter relay doesn't fix things.

If you have any suggestions, please post!

Click to expand...

From looks of that connector, IMO a can of De-Oxit or quality electrical spray cleaner needs to used on ALL electrical plug-ins you can access with tuperware off bike. Unplug, clean, a small dob of dielectic grease in ALL connectors, re-plug back in.
A gradual deteriating connection is what caused that in first place........out of site, out of mind.
BTW, unless you actually tested the relay as the culprit, doubtful that's the issue with the looks of the pic of THAT plug-in.

Brant said:

From looks of that connector, IMO a can of De-Oxit or quality electrical spray cleaner needs to used on ALL electrical plug-ins you can access with tuperware off bike. Unplug, clean, a small dob of dielectic grease in ALL connectors, re-plug back in.
A gradual deteriating connection is what caused that in first place........out of site, out of mind.
BTW, unless you actually tested the relay as the culprit, doubtful that's the issue with the looks of the pic of THAT plug-in.

Click to expand...

Good question...how do you test the relay?

Johnny Canuck said:

Good question...how do you test the relay?

Click to expand...

+1 to what Brant said.

When you say "nothing happens, does that mean you don't hear the starter relay "click" when you depress the starter switch ? You may not have a bad starter relay.

Many other things can cause the starter relay not to be energized. Like the neutral switch and clutch diode. You also could have a bad starter switch or connection at the Red 9-Pin connector in the front of the phony gas tank. I had that problem with my bike. It started out of the blue one day. Discovered the yellow/red wire at the bottom of the connector wasn't snapped into the connector fully.

To start troubleshooting , get a multimeter and measure the voltage at the yellow/red wire at the starter relay with the ignition on & the starter switch depressed. If you have that voltage, that points to a possible problem with the neutral switch or diode, since they supply the "almost" ground to the Green/Red with on the starter relay. It's an "almost" ground because of the clutch diode. If you don't have the voltage at the yellow/red wire , check for voltage at the top of the 9-Pin connector at the yellow/red wire with the switch depressed. If you do have the voltage there , but not at the starter relay, you may have the same problem I had. Also try wiggling the wire bundle going to the 9-Pin connector while the switch is depressed. If the starter energizes, that means you have an intermittent connection at the 9-Pin connector.

If you want to do a rough check on the starter relay, apply +12 volts to the yellow/red connector ( with the bike in neutral ). If nothing happens, keep the +12 volts connected and connect a wire from the green/red wire on the starter relay to the chassis or negative battery terminal. Now you have +12 volts across the starter relay coil - it should energize and the starter should turn over ( if the relay is good ). If it does, and it didn't before you jumpered in the ground wire, the neutral switch or diode is bad.

If you don't have a service manual with a wiring diagram, John O. has a color schematic available on this or his forum that you can download and print out. I'll look for the link.

Here it is

Brant said:

From looks of that connector, IMO a can of De-Oxit or quality electrical spray cleaner needs to used on ALL electrical plug-ins you can access with tuperware off bike.
Unplug, clean, a small dob of dielectic grease in ALL connectors, re-plug back in.
A gradual deteriating connection is what caused that in first place........out of site, out of mind .

Click to expand...

A big +1 there...
Frequent, at least annual cleaning and servicing all electrical connections is a must on motorcycles...
On motorcycles all and everything is exposed to the elements (unlike a car where (nearly) anything is placed behind body parts...), so every time riding in the rain, every time you wash the bike you'll get water plus all kinds of solvents onto places you don't want it, causing galvanic corrosion... if unattended sometimes fatal, causing meltdown of crimps and connector shells, yet even turning parts of the wiring harness into toast, blowing VRRs and alternator windings...
So all connectors must be treated from time to time, especially those carrying high loads, in particular those responsible for primary systems as well as those for the secondary stuff like powered GPS cradle, power outlets, headset connectors, etc...
And don't forget the handlebar switch-pods while at it...

Thanks Jim and ST1100Y...I've been rather lucky not to have electrical problems in my past bikes, so I'm a bit green here. Thanks for your thoughts. I do agree to give all electrical connections the "once over" as you've both suggested. This will be my next immediate task after I tackle Jim's methodical step by step diagnosis.

One thing I can tell you...and I should have mentioned earlier...when I measure the voltage across the battery terminals I'm getting 13+ volts. When I turn the ignition to ON (no lights and my clock goes blank) the voltage reading across the battery terminals drops to just over 1 volt - yup... one volt. When I twist the key back to OFF, the clock comes back on and I'm back to 13+ volts across the battery terminal. I'm not certain what this suggests, but these are the facts. Does this alter anything you gents have indicated above?

There is no clicking noise or any other noise, even when depressing the starter button numerous times. Other than the clock, the bike is "dark" at all times.

Let me know if this information suggests one thing or another. I do appreciate your detailed responses!

Johnny

Sounds like your battery needs to be replaced also. You should not see that much of a voltage drop. At 1 volt there is no way the relay will energize to "click". A fully charged battery will be above 13.v. Switch on should still be above 12v.

Clean those connectors and have the battery tested for load. My $$$ is on a new battery will be needed.

Kevin_56 said:

Sounds like your battery needs to be replaced also. You should not see that much of a voltage drop. At 1 volt there is no way the relay will energize to "click". A fully charged battery will be above 13.v. Switch on should still be above 12v.

Clean those connectors and have the battery tested for load. My $$$ is on a new battery will be needed.

Click to expand...

+1 on above. Sounds like you have almost a dead short somewhere. If the battery is shot, I doubt you would see 13 volts with the ignition switch off. Have the battery load tested to rule out a bad battery. If it tests OK, you may have a partially shorted ignition switch ( maybe ). If the battery is good, then I envy you. You will have a very interesting problem to troubleshoot !!!

BUT, hold on ....... are you measuring the battery voltage with your leads touching the battery terminals, or are they touching the battery cable connectors ?? Make sure you are touching the battery terminals. If so, you could also have a bad connection INSIDE the battery.

Johnny Canuck said:

...when I measure the voltage across the battery terminals I'm getting 13+ volts. When I turn the ignition to ON (no lights and my clock goes blank) the voltage reading across the battery terminals drops to just over 1 volt - yup... one volt. When I twist the key back to OFF, the clock comes back on and I'm back to 13+ volts across the battery terminal...

Click to expand...

uh-oh... :-?
Possible you've a short (to ground) somewhere?
Had similar symptoms on a '94 ST (28A system) due the stator winding shorting to ground (300 ft away from the MOT station...); once I'd disconnected the stator winding (thus eliminating the short), the bike worked perfectly fine on battery power only... (did the MOT test and rode back home without any issues...)

Again....great responses. My work is cut out for me. Will get to this on the weekend. Updates then.

Thanks for the thoughts/recommendations.

Johnny

From the looks of the connector your 'dead short' might be in there or in the wires that have degraded... I'd work on that first... replace the connector with some spade connectors if nothing else...

Definitely do the red-wire reroute...

Well...finally an update. It's been so busy at work and with the family's social schedule, I didn't have a chance to "attack" this starter relay problem since I reported it back in April.

So, this weekend I did swap out the starter relay. I cleaned all the terminals - didn't have time for the "red wire re-route", but since everything looked pretty good after cleaning, it just went back in as I had taken it out. Prior to doing the swap I did connect another battery (jumper cables) just in case it was my bike battery that was the culprit. At that time my bike battery was showing 12 volts - kind of low, but I hadn't placed it on charge in the last 2 months. I even tried again with just my existing battery Nope! Not a bit of power coming through. I did another check with the switch on and the voltage dropped to one (1) volt when the starter switch was depressed. Still somewhat confusing.

Swapped out the old starter relay and connected everything back up and...Yea... (sort of) when I turned the key I got a very weak headlight illumination. Since I got nothing with the old starter relay, this was an improvement, but why so low illumination given I had measured the battery voltage just 10 minutes prior. So...did it again and I was surprised to see only 8 volts across the terminals. Well?

Took the battery right out and placed on charge. By now I was suspecting the battery might also be causing an issue. Connected up the charger and its digital read-out was not making sense. Kept starting and stopping. Then I realized the battery probably had a short in it too! And I believe this to be true. Since purchasing the bike 2 years ago, I was always wondering how old the battery actually was. Maybe it was on it's last legs and this electrical malfunction just caused it to give up the ghost for good.

So, at this point I just purchased a replacement battery and bingo...she fired up like a champ!

In the end I'm convinced the starter relay internals disintegrated (or similar) when I went to start the bike way back in April. The short in the relay must have had an effect on the battery as you will recall when the starter switch was depressed, the voltage on the battery went to one (1) volt. I did that 3 times to be sure, and I suspect by doing so I may have caused damage to the battery. I'm no electrician so I'll never know for sure.

In the end, it all works. Not certain if any of you will ever have this type of failure, however, if your starter relay is the initial culprit, be aware that you may be looking at replacing the battery as well. Just sayin'.....

Now, only if this rain would stop....