Swingarm refurb, ST1100

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ST1100, 1998 non abs
Hi Folks
Had the swingarm off the ST for a bit of a look, ive wanted todo it for a while, so started with the rear wheel removal.....................what a bloody job, i had to remove the diff and shocker (top bolt because the bottom bolt is made of cheese and stripped), and the exhaust cans so i could access the rear brake hanger bolt............etc...

So took about an hour to get it all done, onto the s/arm, it was pretty well rotted underneath so glad i can weld, then cut some plate and welded it up, not pretty but it will never be seen anyhoo!!, couple of coats of paint then greased up the bearings and put it back together, only problem was trying to line up the diff splines with the back of the swingarm, had to have my mate help me as its a three hand job, got it done and every thing checked out fine.

While i was at it i replaced the rear pads, so a good bit of maintenance done and im happy with the results, even though you cant really see them!!.

One question though is WHY did they design the diff to have the pins that lock into the wheel, every other shaft drive bike ive had i can drop the axle/pin out and shimmy the wheel out, but not with the ST???

Its the first thing ive found that i dont like about the bike, and it pains me to say as i really love this machine.

Any hints or tips ref rear wheel removal ???

Cheers
Chris
 
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Hmmm, that's not the usual wheel removal procedure. The brake caliper stopper bolt on the left side, behind the exhaust is easily reached with a 14mm combination wrench and only needs to be loosened enough to clear the swing arm inner surface. Then take off the rear mud guard. Once you remove the axle shaft and swing the caliper out of the way, you should have room to pull the wheel off the splines and roll it out of the swing arm. About a 10 minute job normally.

The Honda Service Manual has all that info.
 
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ST1100Y

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...so started with the rear wheel removal...what a bloody job, i had to remove the diff and shocker (top bolt because the bottom bolt is made of cheese and stripped), and the exhaust cans so i could access the rear brake hanger bolt...
Removal or the rear wheel is not such a hard task as described...
I just remove the end-fender/license-plate holder and turn the LHS silencer downward to access that brake plate stop bolt, slide the axle out, then remove the LHS spacer-collar from the wheel, and off comes the wheel itself with the drive spline in the hub... (the w/shop manuals show that quite good...)

That the lower shock-bolt stripped is the issue of UK climate and bike usage (riding them in the brine during winter) combined with some neglect (no offence intended there).
All bolts I'd ever removed on my ST's get a slight smear of copper-slip on the threads, so no seizing, and I wash and the rig from time to time and treat is with corrosion inhibitors, so it won't look like having been on the bottom of the ocean...

...it was pretty well rotted underneath so glad i can weld, then cut some plate and welded it up...
Since the swing-arm tends to rot from the inside out, the degree of internal/structural damage is unknown... so the patch on the outside might only be... just a patch...
I'd roam eBay for a replacement in good condition and see to treat it with some decent cavity protection (WaxOil, ACF-50), enlarge/clean the drain bores and give it some good protection coating on the outside...
And yes: rinse it down more frequently after winter-use... ;-)
 
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Did you separate the final drive unit (pumpkin) from the driveshaft? If so, there is a specific way to bolt it all back up to prevent damaging the final drive ring gears. More on that, if you need it.
 
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caddyman
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Ive just consulted the youtube gods and looked at a rear wheel removal vid, now my wheel defo didnt come off that easy, im assuming that the pins should remain in the wheel and not the diff, which would give enough clearance, will need to take off again and investigate.

The swingarm rot was cut out completely and fresh steel cut to size then welded up, been weldling and fabricating for 25yrs so im happy with the job done.

And i made sure of the alignment on the diff before tightening down and test riding etc.... all was fine.

cheers
chris

Just looked at the manual and it is the final drive coupling thats the offender so will sort out tomorrow, checking my valve clearances on saturday morning so looking forward to that, bike has 55k on it now so just checking for peace of mind really, sounds like a swiss watch!!
 
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Chris. I am sure that others will chime in here, but that sounds like a lack of Moly paste on the drive splines - causing the spider to stick. It should come off with the wheel.
 

ST1100Y

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...that sounds like a lack of Moly paste on the drive splines - causing the spider to stick. It should come off with the wheel.
+1...

FWIW: the plastic spacer around the f/drive case has a notch at the bottom, enabling insertion of a large, flat-blade screwdriver (or similar tool) to pry the splines out the ring gear, in cases the assy won't stick to the wheel (i.e. significantly worn hub-dampers and "bearing-boss")
 
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caddyman
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Thanks lads, i will keep you updated with my progress.

still lovin the Pan!!
 

John OoSTerhuis

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+1...

FWIW: the plastic spacer around the f/drive case has a notch at the bottom, enabling insertion of a large, flat-blade screwdriver (or similar tool) to pry the splines out the ring gear, in cases the assy won't stick to the wheel (i.e. significantly worn hub-dampers and "bearing-boss")
This procedure is clearly shown in the ST1100 Owners Manual and in the Service Manual. Keeps the Driven Flange inserted into the damper inserts so it comes out with the wheel which then has enough clearance to be easily removed from between the swingarm and final drive.

I don't rotate the left muffler. As mentioned, a 14mm ratcheting box end wrench works well on the brake caliper bracket stopper bolt (anti-seize those threads!). This is the only bolt on my ST that gets a calibrated elbow instead of a torque wrench.

FWIW

John
via iPhone 6
 
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Does sound like the wheel dampers and aluminum inserts are well worn out and that has possibly damaged the wheel hub, under the spider, as well. Martin has mentioned this above. Worn damper inserts will have lost their "grip" on the spider pins, thus the spider assembly is more likely to stick with the splines, as yours did.
 

ST1100Y

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I don't rotate the left muffler. As mentioned, a 14mm ratcheting box end wrench works well on the brake caliper bracket stopper bolt (anti-seize those threads!). This is the only bolt on my ST that gets a calibrated elbow instead of a torque wrench.
+1 on cleaning and proper treatment of that stop bolt...
Which is why I rotate my LHS muffler, giving the clearance to remove it for cleaning, application of copper slip and use of torque wrench during installation (I'm notorious on that, and wasn't there a report on this forum by an ST owner having lost that bolt while riding and the damage aftermath not so long ago?)

Does sound like the wheel dampers and aluminum inserts are well worn out and that has possibly damaged the wheel hub, under the spider, as well. Martin has mentioned this above. Worn damper inserts will have lost their "grip" on the spider pins, thus the spider assembly is more likely to stick with the splines, as yours did.
Again I agree and would like to see some photos of those parts/areas for further diagnosis... (currently a similar thread about an Oz ST in the other forum... severe damage do the "bearing-boss" on the hub)
Neglected wear/damage can lead to some seriously expensive damages, like blown splines in the ring-gear of the final drive...
 
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Ok so i took the back wheel off again today, seperated the final drive coupling from the final drive, and as was metioned serious lack of grease!!

Cleaned up nice and got rid of all the hardened old grease, relubed and inspected the splines, all ok and no undue wear marks, i think that i may replace the rubber dampers in the rear wheel as the coupling shouldnt be as loose, there isnt any harshness in the drive so im doing it more as a precation.

One thing thats annoying is the motad silencer doesnt have the half moon cut out that the oem one does, makes getting the axle out a bit of a pain, but only once a year hopfully so no biggie.

I will probably weld a bigger nut over the lower shock mounting bolt to remove it, really bad design that, they must know with the downward forces that it will sieze up.

Doing the valve clearances tomorrow morning so stripping down tonight.

Thanks very much for all the advice given lads, a wealth of good usable knowlege on this forum, unlike a lot of wannabe sites.

Cheers
Chris
 

ST1100Y

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...seperated the final drive coupling from the final drive, and as was metioned serious lack of grease!!
As to be expected... :(
Also check for that big thrust-washer in there (pre '95 models have a steel, post '96 models a nylon disk)
i think that i may replace the rubber dampers in the rear wheel as the coupling shouldnt be as loose
Those hub dampers/aluminium inserts do have an expiring date/mileage... depending on throttle/clutch hand, payload, road surface and general riding style...

Another area to definitely aim attention at is the hub-centre, sometimes referred as bearing-boss, the drive spline assy is guided on:

defective, worn down one:
002.jpg
self-explanatory that this rim/wheel must be replaced...

an intact, roadworthy one:
STA50002%u0025252520%u00252525282%u0025252529.JPG
Some cleaning, a new O-ring, a good dose of Moly lube, new hub dampers and go ride!

One thing thats annoying is the motad silencer doesnt have the half moon cut out that the oem one does, makes getting the axle out a bit of a pain
Again, try the "rotate" method:
remove the bolt holding the can on the footrest plate
only loosen the exhaust clamp where the silencer plugs into the collector
then "rotate" the silencer downward without pulling it out the (expensive) graphite sleeve-gasket
should give sufficient clearance for the task at hand...
I will probably weld a bigger nut over the lower shock mounting bolt to remove it, really bad design that, they must know with the downward forces that it will sieze up.
Dunno how many thousand ST1100's around the globe are still in operation (DaveW might have some data) and have no issues with that bolt...
Also the shock mounts do require a little service/TLC from time to time, mostly in form or some Moly lube, or at least a slight smear of marine grease...
Thanks very much for all the advice given lads, a wealth of good usable knowlege on this forum, unlike a lot of wannabe sites.
Probably cause the folks who opt for an ST are more serious on long distance riding, thus keeping their mounts in top shape to achieve that in a trouble free manner ;-)

A little proper, preventive maintenance and those bikes are literally bullet-proof...
 
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Chris hi
I have done pretty much the same thing as you in that I removed the swingarm, had it welded and powder coated and I am in the process of installing it in it's rightful place. Encountered the same cheese bolt holding the shock to the diff with same result! No problem getting the arm back in but cannot get the driveshaft back on the splines. Noticed you seem to achieve this, albeit with three hands, any tips?
Did you put in an extra mudguard to help protect the swingarm, saw it on the net and think may be wise but not sure how effective it would be?
Sorry to pick the brains, anything else I may encounter?
Cheers
James
 
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When I took off the swingarm naturally I had to remove the final drive housing and the 'pumpkin' came with the housing so separated from the driveshaft. If you would be good enough to describe this special way of reassembly I would appreciate it. I bolted it back together but there seemed a little pressure in there, I have not ridden it yet just in case!
James
 

Slydynbye

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Ok so i took the back wheel off again today, seperated the final drive coupling from the final drive, and as was metioned serious lack of grease!!

Cleaned up nice and got rid of all the hardened old grease, relubed and inspected the splines, all ok and no undue wear marks, i think that i may replace the rubber dampers in the rear wheel as the coupling shouldnt be as loose, there isnt any harshness in the drive so im doing it more as a precation.

One thing thats annoying is the motad silencer doesnt have the half moon cut out that the oem one does, makes getting the axle out a bit of a pain, but only once a year hopfully so no biggie.

I will probably weld a bigger nut over the lower shock mounting bolt to remove it, really bad design that, they must know with the downward forces that it will sieze up.

Doing the valve clearances tomorrow morning so stripping down tonight.

Thanks very much for all the advice given lads, a wealth of good usable knowlege on this forum, unlike a lot of wannabe sites.

Cheers
Chris
A common cause of no grease is worn O-rings. There are 3 that should be replaced about as often as tires, they hold the grease where it needs to stay.
 
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Chris hi
I have done pretty much the same thing as you in that I removed the swingarm, had it welded and powder coated and I am in the process of installing it in it's rightful place. Encountered the same cheese bolt holding the shock to the diff with same result! No problem getting the arm back in but cannot get the driveshaft back on the splines. Noticed you seem to achieve this, albeit with three hands, any tips?
Did you put in an extra mudguard to help protect the swingarm, saw it on the net and think may be wise but not sure how effective it would be?
Sorry to pick the brains, anything else I may encounter?
Cheers
James
I rocked mine back and forth a fraction of a turn while pushing it back into position. The shaft splines slipped right into the crown toothed coupling.
 
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When I took off the swingarm naturally I had to remove the final drive housing and the 'pumpkin' came with the housing so separated from the driveshaft. If you would be good enough to describe this special way of reassembly I would appreciate it. I bolted it back together but there seemed a little pressure in there, I have not ridden it yet just in case!
James
With the pumpkin off the swingarm, you can turn the driveshaft by hand. It is also possible to turn the output shaft by hand, with the driveshaft connected, if the transmission is in neutral. So in order to ascertain that you have indeed coupled the u-joint onto the output shaft, if you can turn the shaft in neutral, but not in gear, you are connected.
 
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