Yokohama Avid ENVigor Darkside Test

After going through 3 rears in 5 weeks I decided to do some further research on CTs. My first choice of a Falken 612 was flawed due to the single ply sidewall, sport rubber compound (lowish UTOG of 300) and an asymetrical tread pattern. It seems logical that if one was to use a CT on a bike then a rotation specific, symetrical tread would be advisable. I also like the idea of a 2 ply sidewall to deal with the MC-specific cornering forces though this is probably more personal preference. I also want to see if the Falken's sport oriented design was the reason for the front end push I felt in low speed switchbacks.

The Yokohama Avid ENVigor gets great reviews from the faster GW Darksiders so I figured I would try one, ~$140 later and a somewhat easier install than the Falken (hot sunny day helped) and I am ready for some mountain road testing. I used the garbage bag method to slide the tire into place and it went in without having to deflate the tire which is a bonus. 41 psi is my starting point after doing some testing last night within 1 miles of home (outer edge temps were higher by 3 degress so will check after a highway run and adjust accordingly). I will scrub in the tire properly today but the initial result is a huge improvement over the Falken with no wiggles when leaned over and on the gas and great feel on the edge of the tire. The tire felt better every mile I put on with the usual CT desire to plow straight at low speeds though not as pronounced as the Falken. As the speeds increase the tire feels more like a MC tire but I will reserve judgement for now.

More to follow...

KEB

Are you riding a Goldwing or an ST1300? I've been running the Michelin Alpine run flat on the rear of my GW and only air it to 28psi... any stiffer and it wears faster in the center that the sides.
The run flat has stiff sidewalls, so at that psi, I don't feel any squirm under power and in the corners. Others here have run different tires on the 1300 and seem to run higher psi's... Guess it is a trade off... if you are aggressive in the turns, then maybe the sides will wear the same as the middle. As for the GW, I can't get anymore aggressive in the turns, I'm already scrubbing the bodywork...4:

I just removed a Yoko Envigor from my ST. Got about 30K out of it. Much better than the Hankook, but not in the same league as a GYTT. I installed a new GYTT, so I'm good for another 50K.

Vinny, I am on an ST1300. I ended up at 50 psi after a full day of testing around the Deals Gap area.

kendoo said:

I just removed a Yoko Envigor from my ST. Got about 30K out of it. Much better than the Hankook, but not in the same league as a GYTT. I installed a new GYTT, so I'm good for another 50K.

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Are you comparing mileage or performance or both? If the GYTT handles better than the Yoko then I would be stunned. After a full day of testing I feel I have found a true MC tire replacement. I had a blast yesterday following an out-of-town friend who was with a group of folks testing a Lamborghini and a Ferrari. At first I was all Loyd Bridges saying "I picked a bad day to quit motorcycle tires" but I was pleasantly surprised I could hang with the supercars, led by a local driver in the Ferrari. How's this for a Darkside photo? Maybe too apropos? -



http://xtremesportsphotography.photoreflect.com/store/Orderpage.aspx?pi=0QAK0205016545&po=104&pc=8627

kebrider said:

Are you comparing mileage or performance or both? If the GYTT handles better than the Yoko then I would be stunned. After a full day of testing I feel I have found a true MC tire replacement. I had a blast yesterday following an out-of-town friend who was with a group of folks testing a Lamborghini and a Ferrari. At first I was all Loyd Bridges saying "I picked a bad day to quit motorcycle tires" but I was pleasantly surprised I could hang with the supercars, led by a local driver in the Ferrari. How's this for a Darkside photo? Maybe too apropos? -



http://xtremesportsphotography.photoreflect.com/store/Orderpage.aspx?pi=0QAK0205016545&po=104&pc=8627

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Mileage and sidewall stiffness. The GYTT seems to have the least amount of squirm in the corners if you happen to blip the throttle.

kendoo said:

Mileage and sidewall stiffness. The GYTT seems to have the least amount of squirm in the corners if you happen to blip the throttle.

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At 50 psi there is only a hint of squirm. Side to side transitions felt pretty bad even at 45 psi but at 50 it is excellent as long as you're smooth and not hateful if you're not. If the GYTT offers less squirm and turns in as easily then I get why it is so popular. Being able to mount the Yoko fully inflated is a minor plus but it also tells me it is a narrower tire so it should turn in easier but the proof is in the riding. The rounded edges of the Yoko would seem to aid turn in as well.

Re: Yokohama Avid ENVigor Darkside Test - 650 mile update

450 miles yesterday on a near record hot day in TN and WNC. Took a route from Knoxville to Hot Springs, NC and from there we wound our way back home via Deals Gap. Mid 90s heat and rain in the evening made for great tire test conditions. The Yokohama performed well with no grip issues and relatively minor darkside personality traits. According to my tread depth gauge I have used 1/32 (down from 11/32 new to 10/32) of tread across the center and maybe slightly more on the edges. Early data suggests 6,000 mile tire life but I will continue to monitor.

KEB

Re: Yokohama Avid ENVigor Darkside Test - 650 mile update

kebrider said:

450 miles yesterday on a near record hot day in TN and WNC. Took a route from Knoxville to Hot Springs, NC and from there we wound our way back home via Deals Gap. Mid 90s heat and rain in the evening made for great tire test conditions. The Yokohama performed well with no grip issues and relatively minor darkside personality traits. According to my tread depth gauge I have used 1/32 (down from 11/32 new to 10/32) of tread across the center and maybe slightly more on the edges. Early data suggests 6,000 mile tire life but I will continue to monitor.

KEB

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You'll get more than 6K out of it, unless you were only getting 2-3K from your MT tires.

Re: Yokohama Avid ENVigor Darkside Test - 650 mile update

kendoo said:

You'll get more than 6K out of it, unless you were only getting 2-3K from your MT tires.

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1.5 to 2K.

How would you compare the handling of the GYTT to the Yoko kendoo?

Re: Yokohama Avid ENVigor Darkside Test - 650 mile update

kebrider said:

1.5 to 2K.

How would you compare the handling of the GYTT to the Yoko kendoo?

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If you are only getting 2K out of a MT, we have slightly different riding styles, LOL. I can only say I prefer the GYTT for its sidewall stiffness and wear.

Keb:

I am very interested in your reporting / assessment to date.

To be clear...my skillset / riding style is far more "flower-sniffing" that strafing runs through hot corners at 9/10th.

But based upon what you experience has been...I'm hard-pressed to identify any downside to shifting from the Michelin PR's to the darkside.

Am I missing anything?

TIA!

Cheddar

Cheddarhead said:

Keb:

I am very interested in your reporting / assessment to date.

To be clear...my skillset / riding style is far more "flower-sniffing" that strafing runs through hot corners at 9/10th.

But based upon what you experience has been...I'm hard-pressed to identify any downside to shifting from the Michelin PR's to the darkside.

Am I missing anything?

TIA!

Cheddar

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Great question Cheddar. I recommend various bike tires all the time but I would never recommend a car tire on a bike simply because of the ridiculous liability.

Having said that I have been surprised how well the Yokohama works compared to a MC tire. The downsides (or personality traits) of a car tire on a bike are well documented and the Yoko has all the well-known traits to some degree or another. Only expert riders should consider the DS option as they do impact the steering of the bike and one of the ST's strong suits is its ability to hide its heft when sudden direction changes are needed. The bike still moves pretty quick with the car tire but it takes a little more muscle and more trust in leaning the bike quickly and aggressively. Part of this is due to the fact the bike lifts its rear end when leaning which could add some potentially confusing feedback for a rider. One thing I do notice with the Yoko is the tire feels great at lower speeds with great quickness and decent feel. It gets progressively harder to turn as speeds increase (though never truly difficult), somewhat similar to a weighted power steering system. Conversely, at lower speeds the Yoko will follow certain road imperfections more noticeably which requires forceful inputs from the rider on occasion and could cause balance issues for less skilled riders.

There is a certain novelty to riding with the Yoko right now, so maybe a little honeymoon phase perhaps, but I look forward to putting more miles on the tire. It gives the bike a different personality, one which I can better explain after putting on more miles. Not for everyone because the steering is definitely slower, think squared off MC tire, but for me being smooth and quick while darksiding is challenging and rewarding.

I have no regrets at this point.

KEB

I am over a 1,000 miles but miles are adding up slow. I did a 380 mile day Saturday and the bike felt strange all day. I am beginning to think the tire dislikes life on the side tread. Straight line stability is lousy when hitting bumps or freeway seams in that if I am riding one-handed the bike will go into a good wobble. It always straightens up but the people riding behind me say the bike looks like it is wobbling all the time.

Anyone with a lot of darkside miles have any experience reducing straight line instability issues? Maybe it is a tire thing or maybe running 48 psi is too much? I have a 1/3rd worn T30 up front but the wobbles seem to emanate from the rear.

KEB

I am running a BF-GOODRICH tire and I found 28psi is working great so far. I have 1700 miles on it in three days and more coming.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

I ran 35 on a GYTT and wore the center through before the edges. Dropping to 32 on the new rear.

I started at 38 PSI and kept going up until the handling felt most like a MC tire. Maybe I should have started lower so I will drop the pressure to 26 and take more temp readings. One of the reasons i kept increasing pressure was the temps are always higher on the edges of the tire bit that may be a function of the roads i ride.

Thanks for the replies guys

KEB

I run at 38 psi with no wobble or squirming. Love my Hankook! Running a Dunlop RoadSmart II on the front.

Dale

Does no one use a run flat? It is what I use on the wing and "wobble" has never been an issue even at 28 lbs.

Bigmak96 said:

Does no one use a run flat? It is what I use on the wing and "wobble" has never been an issue even at 28 lbs.

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I would love to run a RF tire but I cannot imagine how it would go on the ST's narrow rim as i hear they are tougher to mount than a non RF tire. 5.5" is the minimum size rim listed for the 205/50 tires we run and the ST rim is 5.0".

Anyone have a RF tire on their ST?

KEB