Besides the usual bleeding, servicing calipers, replacing lines, etc., any recommendations for improving the 'wooden' feel of my ST1100 front brakes?
Swapping to a newer master?
Thanks
Swapping to a newer master?
Thanks
ST1100 'Wooden' brakes
- Thread starter Johnny Rocco
- Start date
If your bleed was thorough and you still want better brakes, you will have to change to an ABS bike. Those brakes are far better than the non-ABS unit. More pistons equals more response.
You want really great front brakes on an '01?
I switched to SS lines over 100,000 miles ago and they get the job done really well.
I originally switched because we had 2 '01s and one had great brakes and mine didn't after repeated bleeds, after the SS installation and a complete bleed (obviously! ) I haven't looked back.
I switched to SS lines over 100,000 miles ago and they get the job done really well.
I originally switched because we had 2 '01s and one had great brakes and mine didn't after repeated bleeds, after the SS installation and a complete bleed (obviously!
) I haven't looked back.
Uncle Phil
Site Supporter
+100 - I have both models and my standard has stainless lines - the ABSII still stops a lot better! To get ABSII front calipers, you also have to swap the forks, triple tree, master cylinder and discs and do a little plumbing for the linked part - you could still use the standard front wheel since you don't need the ABS ring.
Johnny, what type of brake pads did you install?. Do not install Sintered pads if the bike is designed for organic as they will eat rotors and give poor stopping when cold. See the attached linkhttps://www.st-owners.com/forums/showthread.php?144433-Looking-for-brake-pad-suggestions/page4
DaveWooster
'95 ST1100ALS and '98 Standard ST1100W
No one can recommend a better pad for a non-ABS model? The stock type are the best even if one can afford to wear out some rotors?
(Here is Saltydog's link again:
https://www.st-owners.com/forums/showthread.php?144433-Looking-for-brake-pad-suggestions/page4 .)
Those pads are of a different material, also. And the third pistons are not fully utilized to help slow down the front wheel. They may be stronger, but overall, the ABSII system is not better, IMO.
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The ABSII bikes definitely have more stopping power. Pads also make a difference..I put EBC organics on one of my ST's and "wooden" was exactly how I described them. I think the collective consensus is that it's difficult to beat the OEM Honda brake pads for performance or longevity.
About the best you can do on a non-ABS bike is SS lines with OEM pads and a good thorough bleed.
About the best you can do on a non-ABS bike is SS lines with OEM pads and a good thorough bleed.
these were one of the GG friction rated pads that would fit the ST, but were not a viable replacement pad and should not have been used. EBC also produces a HH friction rated pad that is applicable to the ST. I wouldn't say they're better than OEM, but they are another HH friction alternative to OEM.
Where do you find the 'friction rating' on a brake pad? I don't recall seeing this on the OEM package, nor have I ever noticed the code on the back of bike or car pads. Doesn't mean it isn't there - but I usually notice model numbers and letters..... See article below.
http://ebcbrakes.com/articles/best-brake-pads-article-part-2/
Interesting that you say that. I take it you have ridden both ABS and Non. My first 1100 was a standard and the subsequent ABS bikes were much better in my opinion and Uncle Phil's.
I have always used OEM pads.
sometimes its on the pad backing, but I can't say for sure that its always there. I recall the OEM pads having HH in the part number somewhere. You can also generally find it somewhere in the application guides for the pads. The EBC replacement for the ST front pads is part number FA142HH if I remember correctly, so its in the part number as well sometimes.
Uncle Phil
Site Supporter
Mr. Wooster - IMHO,
:bsflag:
- The ABSII pads have very defined ridges as compared to the standard pads which only have grooves. The ABSII pads are much more aggressive because they have better 'bite'. This is not based on 'books' and internet research but on actual experience. ;-)
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wjbertrand
Ventura Highway
When I switched from my '93 ABS model, which still had the standard 2-piston calipers to the ST1300 that has I think almost the same linked ABS system that was fitted to the '96 and later ABS II ST1100s, one of the first things I noticed was the greatly improved braking action. In contrast to mister Wooster's assertion, I found the 3-piston linked system much better than the old two-piston, non-linked system. It's also not true about the 3rd piston not being fully used unless you are not applying the rear brake. One should use BOTH brakes when attempting to stop quickly right? Just try a hard stop using only the front brakes initially, then add the rear brake. You will feel that additional braking at the front as soon as you apply the rear brake.
With respect to stopping distances, though the 3-piston linked system improves, feel, balance and efficiency (i.e the force required at the lever/pedal for the same deceleration level), they are about the same with both systems due to the ABS intervention which, for most systems, seems to be calibrated to limit deceleration to about 1G.
Regarding the "wooden" feeling, the best solution I found with my ST1100 was to use the OEM pads. I tried a couple different sets of Galfer pads and besides the wooden feel, the green ones were very poor in the rain, taking, seemingly, several seconds application before heating up / drying out and then grabbing suddenly due to the force you were applying trying to get the brakes to slow the bike. Thank god I had ABS or that sudden grab in the rain could have sent me down!
With respect to stopping distances, though the 3-piston linked system improves, feel, balance and efficiency (i.e the force required at the lever/pedal for the same deceleration level), they are about the same with both systems due to the ABS intervention which, for most systems, seems to be calibrated to limit deceleration to about 1G.
Regarding the "wooden" feeling, the best solution I found with my ST1100 was to use the OEM pads. I tried a couple different sets of Galfer pads and besides the wooden feel, the green ones were very poor in the rain, taking, seemingly, several seconds application before heating up / drying out and then grabbing suddenly due to the force you were applying trying to get the brakes to slow the bike. Thank god I had ABS or that sudden grab in the rain could have sent me down!
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Uncle Phil
Site Supporter
I've always used the stock pads on all of my ST1100s and I'm still on the original discs (rotors). On two of them, that's over 100,000 miles each and they are still in spec. When time permits, I plan on installing the ABSII 'hydraulic' system on my standard (which will include a triple tree, front forks, and disc swaps among other things). ;-)
OP
OP
Thank you. thank you, thank you!
I appreciate all of the well thought feedback.
I'll start off with the OEM pads. followed by SS lines.
I appreciate all of the well thought feedback.
I'll start off with the OEM pads. followed by SS lines.
I have very good feel and very good stopping power with my non-ABS brakes using Volar Kevlar brake pads, front and rear. $16 (with shipping ) for the set.
OK, I'm ready. I just ducked behind a tree for cover ...........
OK, I'm ready. I just ducked behind a tree for cover ...........
DaveWooster
'95 ST1100ALS and '98 Standard ST1100W
The current, Honda part numbers for OEM pads seem to be:
Front (one pair): 45105-ML7-405
Rear (one pair): 06435-MT3-405
The original OEM pads said "Nissin" on them, I think. I don't know if these will.
Of course, one changes none or both pairs on the front (in order to keep those front brakes balanced).
You may have to open the bleed valve to push the pistons in and make room for your thicker, new pads. If so, bleed any air out after installing those pads.
Take time to prop up your front wheel so you can check for excessive front brake drag.
And of course, don't rely on your reconditioned front brakes until you've tested them carefully several times.
Here is one of the posts from Saltydog's link, giving US dollar prices for OEM):
A less tested alternative:
Where should he look for front, stainless steel brake lines?
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I got mine from Galfer, many, many, years ago. They would be worth a phone call, if they no longer carry them in stock for the ST1100 they might be able to point you to someone who does, or they may make custom lines to order.
He should send me an email. I have a set of S.S. brakes lines ( +2 inch ) that I'll let go for $50. Only used one year before I installed my home-brew 4 inch handlebar risers and installed a custom made set of longer rubber brake hoses from Brake Materials and Parts in Ft. Wayne.
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