bike died while riding, broken bolt code 19

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Fi diagnosis completes okfuel pump whine ok. After extended cranking steady Fi light. Walking to Kmart for pliers and a paperclip
 

BakerBoy

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Re: died while riding

Sorry, I don't know Carl. I'm not where my manual is. I search here and on STWiki, but was not able to find the blinky codes. Hopefully someone else has their manual handy.
 
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Re: died while riding

I'm back, posted in wrong thread tap talk add REALLY wanted square inches on the phone.

Anywho wasn't the connector.
Bike is home, connector pulled cleaned no dice.
No continuity to ground on the upper pin of the sensor. (sensor is not shorted)
Have continuity to ground on the connector white wire.

Good book says next is peak voltage check.
Any idea what's in a Honda peak voltage detector? Diode and capacitor maybe a bleed resistor?

Any idea what kind of CKP sensor they use. I'm assuming it's a coil but they don't list a nominal resistance value across the 2 sensor pins :confused:
 
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Blrfl

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Re: died while riding

Have continuity to ground on the connector white wire.
The next thing to check would be continuity to the ECM, but checking the peak voltage there would accomplish the same thing. I'd do that first.

Any idea what's in a Honda peak voltage detector? Diode and capacitor maybe a bleed resistor?
A multimeter that can catch and hold maximum voltage (which is a lot of them these days) will cover it.

Any idea what kind of CKP sensor they use. I'm assuming it's a coil but they don't list a nominal resistance value across the 2 sensor pins
The wiring diagram shows a coil but the system diagram in section 20 hints that it could be a Hall effect sensor. Does current flow at all across it? If you haven't, pull the sensor out of the engine and make sure nothing physically bad has happened to the business end.

--Mark
 
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Re: died while riding

If you haven't, pull the sensor out of the engine and make sure nothing physically bad has happened to the business end.
--Mark
Sure what could go wrong...
Hint tiny nick in the sensor probe and I'm really not liking mah Honda right now.
Draining oil now.

Any guesses from those playing along at home?
 

Blrfl

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Re: died while riding

Rut-roh. I spent five minutes staring at that part and can't deduce what it is. Help a guy out.

--Mark
 
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Re: died while riding

It's about a quarter of the bolt that used to hold the primary drive gear on.
I stuck my pinky in the sensor hole and it didn't feel right:rolleyes:
I pulled the crank plug and that's what fell out.

So I'm thinking
a- The guy who puts the oil filter on torqued it.
b- It backed off and fatigued.
c- Honda didn't get that bolt from where they thought they did.

No way that bolt should break in a million miles.
 
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Re: died while riding

Am I seeing metal flakes on the end?
There was a tiny bit of metal on the end of the probe of the CKP. That lined up well with the small gouge on that probe. I'd guess the crank tone wheel still has all its teeth. We'll see.

I didn't feel a ugly ah carp noise when it died. Cranking to coax the Fi code sounded ok.
That fat backing washer to that bolt was where it's supposed to be. I have it held in with a skinny Neo bar magnet at the moment.
I'm hoping nothing went around for the ride and messed up the gear on the clutch basket etc.

I *MAY have dodged a major engine lunching.
 
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Blrfl

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Re: died while riding

It's about a quarter of the bolt that used to hold the primary drive gear on.
Crikey, that's not good.

No way that bolt should break in a million miles.
Agreed. Are you the first owner, or is there a chance your bike was worked on before you owned it? Even though you're a century out of warranty, I'd still get in touch with Honda. They may want to check it out and might cover the cost of the repairs since it's an engine that's still in production. Couldn't hurt to ask, anyway.

There was a tiny bit of metal on the end of the probe of the CKP. That lined up well with the small gouge on that probe. I'd guess the crank tone wheel still has all its teeth. We'll see. ... I didn't feel a ugly ah carp noise when it died. Cranking to coax the Fi code sounded ok.
Based on the cutaway diagram of the engine, I'd have to guess that the bolt gave out, the main gear slid forward far enough to run into the sensor and that was enough to make the ECM throw in the towel and stop running the engine. Seems like the inside of the engine cover should probably have held the entire works in place. I'll be interested to see what that looks like.

If that's all it was, the worst part of it will be extracting the bolt from the crankshaft, which you might be able to pull off without disassembling the engine. I'd enlist the help of a professional because messing that up will entail a full teardown or replacing the engine. (The latter might be cheaper.) Other than that, getting the engine back into running order shouldn't be difficult.

The good news here is that since all of this lives in the front compartment of the engine, the important parts of the engine were well-protected from any of this. Debris from the bolt failure should be minimal and probably ended up in the oil pan in short order, where the pickup screen and oil filter will prevent it from circulating.

Best of luck with it, and if there's anything I can do to help, post up.

--Mark
 
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Re: died while riding

1st owner. Off the show room floor. I'm assuming case hard bolt does that look like it wasn't hardened deep enough?

Tomorrow is beach day or pulling the cover haven't received instruction yet LOL. It felt like the tone wheel was still there so I think the splines on the crank shaft may still be good.

As short as the pc is I'm thinking there's good purchase to extract the shank but yeah after a consult with the NJ ST whisperer Torrance is on the short list.
 
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BakerBoy

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Re: died while riding

1st owner. Off the show room floor. I'm assuming case hard bolt does that look like it wasn't hardened deep enough?

Tomorrow is beach day or pulling the cover haven't received instruction yet LOL. It felt like the tone wheel was still there so I think the splines on the crank shaft may still be good.

As short as the pc is I'm thinking there's good purchase to extract the shank but yeah after a consult with the NJ ST whisperer Torrance is on the short list.
Bummer to hear of this failure. Regarding case hardening get depth... I doubt it is case hardened, but even so, it ks usually not realistic to see depth by eye.
 
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Re: died while riding

Fluids drained, radiator out, connector cleaning and some general cleaning before pulling the covers.
FWIW the water pump side was considerably tighter than the main cover. 6 side socket is probably a good idea. Nothing rounded off so far so good.
Project interruptous...

Update;
Covers off naturally the gasket is mostly stuck to the engine not the cover.
Ruler shoved in there kept the water pump gear from sliding off and dropping the chain. Thanks Curt. RIP.
All the shavings still there are non magnetic looks like clutch basket gouges and cover.
Primary gear set and tone wheel look good. End of the crank shaft splines look good.

The water pump cover bolts are pretty corroded that explains why they were tighter.
Gasket completely compression set.
Corrosion bridging the o-ring at the top of the water pump cover. Possible why I smelled coolant but not drips.

Looks like remnants of rtv in spots on cover and some rtvish looking fm still in the cover.
Maybe to hold the gasket in place during engine assembly?

Crank case has some gouges where it kept the tone wheel and gears from turning into an engine grenade party.
No huge surprises so far.

Pictures to follow.
 
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Re: died while riding

Gory details.
o-ring
o-ring_failure.jpg

rtv shmootz
rtv_bleed.jpg

cover gouges and rtv fm
covergouges_rtvfm.jpg

clutch basket gouges and shavings.
shavings_nonmagnetic.jpg

Half a frigg'n bolt:mad:
broken_bolt.jpg
 

BakerBoy

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Re: died while riding

Looks like you were fortunate (relatively speaking)--it can't have been doing that grinding for very long. :eek:

The bolt remnant should be loose (should be able to tease it out) from inside the crankshaft, unless the bolt is stretched.
 
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