High speed stability

I have an old BMW R100RS. Rock stable at over 100mph. My 98 VFR was rock stable at over 100.
My new to me 07 ST13 with 9000 miles is just not. No feeling of confidence. Does not track well on it's own. No weave or wobble just very light feeling. Been to indicated 110 and feels about the same from 90 up.
No difference with or without top case and with or without passenger.
Wonder what is up with this?

fnmag said:

Could be a number of things. But first, I'd check your pre-load adjuster to see if there is any fluid in it.

Click to expand...

I can get preload. Probably needs fluid as it takes some turns to get going. But it does move and I have it set so there is just a bit of preload.
But preloading the rear in my mind will not settle the front. Raising the rear should result in quickening the steering if anything no?

My ST is far more stable, smooth, confidence inspiring, etc, at speed than my old Guzzi's. It is also about 30 years newer. But, as said, there are a lot of things that would affect your stability. As I wrote in another thread, when I backed off the rear shock's dampening (lightened it) the bike became sensitive to tractor-trailer turbulence and the bike displayed a wobble in response to that wind. Tightening the dampening up between 1/4 and 3/8 turn eliminated that instability.

Tire wear, imbalance, dampening wear, spring sag, steering head bearings, rear shock wear, all these things can affect stability, but at 9k miles, I would not expect any of the larger mechanical parts to have significant wear. I'd look to tires - pressure, wear, brand, front axle/fork alignment, and rear shocks - preload and dampening adjustments first. These are the easy things.

The ST is also much more 'flickable' than my older bikes, which were rock solid stable yet not as comfortable above 75. This Honda is, after all a sport-tourer, and as such is going to be highly maneuverable. Might some of this be your perception of your various bikes' character? The second time I rode on a ST, I was astounded at how easily it turned in a parking lot at low speeds, and how easy it was to 'steer' with the throttle.

fnmag said:

Could be a number of things. But first, I'd check your pre-load adjuster to see if there is any fluid in it.

Jim

Click to expand...

I agree, try it with the preload all the way in....see if it makes a difference....depending on mods to your scoot the front end gets light at speed....does it have risers, setbacks, custom seat etc. that changes the weight distribution? Personally I think the fork springs are too soft for most people's weight...Sonics worked well for me....what do you weigh? And lastly, how's the tires? Cupped,worn? tire pressures at 42/42? Good luck sorting it out...ff

The ST1300 is light steering at high speeds compared to other bikes. That is a characteristic of the ST1300. It may be a bit unnerving but ordinarily it is not dangerous or indicative of something wrong. Choice of tires, tire pressure, windshield height, load and luggage configuration all can influence the happy feet feeling.

This is an issue as old as the ST1300 going back to 2002. While it is not intuitive we have learned that a lot of preload helps to settle the bike down at higher speeds - it will not pogo as much.

There are tons and tons of posts on stability, instability, weave, wobble, Pan Weave, suspension, preload, etc. in the ST1300 Tech subforum. Use the ST-O search engine and search all types for one of these words -wobble, weave, stability, instability, yada, yada. This is "wobble":

https://www.st-owners.com/forums/search.php?searchid=5013223

dduelin said:

The ST1300 is light steering at high speeds compared to other bikes. That is a characteristic of the ST1300. It may be a bit unnerving but ordinarily it is not dangerous or indicative of something wrong. Choice of tires, tire pressure, windshield height, load and luggage configuration all can influence the happy feet feeling.

This is an issue as old as the ST1300 going back to 2002. While it is not intuitive we have learned that a lot of preload helps to settle the bike down at higher speeds - it will not pogo as much.

Click to expand...

More preload is definitely not intuitive but I will try it. I have no pogo and really no issue with the feel of the suspension. From what I have read it DOES seem to characteristic of the 13.
The bike seems like brand new. Nothing seems worn at all or old.
I think from all I have read that I will not chase this issue around too much.
Tires are good. Not sure the brand. Maybe OEM front and replacement rear going by mileage. Pressures are good.
Couple of things though. I'm not used to the sit up (er) riding position yet. That may be a factor. It FEELS like it's a fairing thing though.
No bar risers. Stock seat. Same feel with or without top box. MAYBE a bit better without top box. Givi V46 BTW.
I DO love the quick steering at lower speeds though. Guess it's a tradeoff.
I have to add there is no wobble or weave. Just very light steering feel and very sensitive to rider input. Maybe I just need to get used to it.

The bikes are under spring for all but the lightest of riders in the 145-165 lb range. Preload helps cope but does not really raise ride height enough to quicken steering.

I got my 2008 ST1300 in April this year and it is bone stock, factory wind screen, handlebars, suspension, etc. with 14k miles. I moved to this bike from a 1991 ST1100. A couple of things I noticed immediately are windscreen position at high speeds and dirty air from semis. I found that a slight movement down on the windscreen makes a big difference. the next thing I noticed is my body weight on the handlebars. I found that my ST1300 requires a light touch on the bars as soon as I get heavy handed the bike wonders. That is the main reason I took the riser block out that the PO had installed. There was to much leverage on the bars with it in.

As suggested above check the suspension and other mechanical things too.

Grabcon said:

I got my 2008 ST1300 in April this year and it is bone stock, factory wind screen, handlebars, suspension, etc. with 14k miles. I moved to this bike from a 1991 ST1100. A couple of things I noticed immediately are windscreen position at high speeds and dirty air from semis. I found that a slight movement down on the windscreen makes a big difference. the next thing I noticed is my body weight on the handlebars. I found that my ST1300 requires a light touch on the bars as soon as I get heavy handed the bike wonders. That is the main reason I took the riser block out that the PO had installed. There was to much leverage on the bars with it in.

As suggested above check the suspension and other mechanical things too.

Click to expand...

This sounds just like my bike to me. Another vote for "it's normal" in my mind.
I would much rather think it's normal then immediately start chasing things around. I have seen many posts where people did this and that to no avail. It's not SUCH a problem for me as I don't spend a lot of time at triple digits. Normal highway speeds she is just fine.
I will add some preload to the rear and soon change the oil in the adjuster as well. I will not worry about the light steering so much because from what I see I would need to change the entire frame to cure it.
Why Honda didn't change a fraction of a degree of rake or wheelbase or whatever over the years is beyond me but it is what it is. The bike is REMARKABLE at low and sane speeds though. Easiest bike to ride that I have owned.
Has anyone actually effected enough change to say that their bike handle GREAT at triple digits?

Odd, really. My 2003 with 60K+ is stable as can be up to an indicated 135. I like to ride fast on our lonely Texas Panhandle roads. I may make it more stable with my 283 lbs though. Check your tires.

JimGregory said:

I have an old BMW R100RS. Rock stable at over 100mph. My 98 VFR was rock stable at over 100.
My new to me 07 ST13 with 9000 miles is just not. No feeling of confidence. Does not track well on it's own. No weave or wobble just very light feeling.
Wonder what is up with this?

Click to expand...

Without mentioning speeds I can tell you that my 2004 ST1300A with 55,000 miles is rock solid on the highway especially with the wind shield all the way down. Never been on the BMW or VFR so I cannot compare.

Regarding the pre-load. What happens when a motorcycle moves at speed is that the rear suspension loads. This has the affect of dropping the rear end. If the rear end drops far enough it will take a good deal of weight off of the front end and the front may begin to hunt. A couple things you can try. First preload the rear. Second, lower the wind shield all the way and take a ride on the highway. Third, you can take off the top box because that acts as a sail and puts extra pressure on the rear wheel. Forth, pick up a rear shock spring that is rated for your weight.

Valker said:

Odd, really. My 2003 with 60K+ is stable as can be up to an indicated 135. I like to ride fast on our lonely Texas Panhandle roads. I may make it more stable with my 283 lbs though. Check your tires.

Click to expand...

Well there I go. What tire pressures are you running? So they can be well behaved at very high speed.
I could see me expecting the worst having read all the stability stuff before I even took ownership. Then accelerating with a death grip on the bars thinking I'm gonna get spit off any second.
Maybe I need to relax and most importantly go SLOWER being I am SO not in Texas but congested bat crap crazy curvy Rt 95 in CT.

There is a wide range of experience that people have. What someone calls rock solid to someone else it verges on unstable while to yet someone else it's somewhere in the middle. I had a BMW R100 and a 98 VFR in the past while at the same time I owned an ST1300 which now has 153,867 miles on it. Judges against those two the ST is very light on its feet and more affected by crosswinds or turbulence. I've never felt it wasn't suited for traveling at 143 mph but there are bikes that feel more settled at 125+.

RCS said:

Without mentioning speeds I can tell you that my 2004 ST1300A with 55,000 miles is rock solid on the highway especially with the wind shield all the way down. Never been on the BMW or VFR so I cannot compare.

Regarding the pre-load. What happens when a motorcycle moves at speed is that the rear suspension loads. This has the affect of dropping the rear end. If the rear end drops far enough it will take a good deal of weight off of the front end and the front may begin to hunt. A couple things you can try. First preload the rear. Second, lower the wind shield all the way and take a ride on the highway. Third, you can take off the top box because that acts as a sail and puts extra pressure on the rear wheel. Forth, pick up a rear shock spring that is rated for your weight.

Click to expand...

Thanks Robert. A local boy! I'm at work in Stratford right now.
I had the top case off today for my "test" ride in to work. I get the windshield thing but am so in love with my up/down button! I can dial out wind noise for the first time in my life.
I think I did have it lowered though. Thanks for the preload explanation. Maybe it's just me but the bike feels sprung fine. I have no idea the history of this bike but it's possible the PO changed things, but highly unlikely.

I think the rider's weight is a possible factor. I'm large and this bike is one of the more stable high-speed bikes I've had. Had a BMW boxer that felt like the front end was lifting off the highway at any speed over 100 mph.

Svrdhd said:

I think the rider's weight is a possible factor. I'm large and this bike is one of the more stable high-speed bikes I've had. Had a BMW boxer that felt like the front end was lifting off the highway at any speed over 100 mph.

Click to expand...

The R100RS fairing is legendary. Great protection and great manners at speed.

These three things made a huge difference for me:
1. Preload- I had it cranked way up affecting the balance, too much nose weight (Important: Check the oil level.)
2. Removed the top box for high speed runs (was causing " happy feet", the rear of the bike would dance a little)
3. Tighten the stem nut, mine was very loose, front end felt "on the road, not in the road"

JimGregory said:

Well there I go. What tire pressures are you running? So they can be well behaved at very high speed.
I could see me expecting the worst having read all the stability stuff before I even took ownership. Then accelerating with a death grip on the bars thinking I'm gonna get spit off any second.
Maybe I need to relax and most importantly go SLOWER being I am SO not in Texas but congested bat crap crazy curvy Rt 95 in CT.

Click to expand...

I run 42psi front and rear. I'm running Angel GT set right now, but last year I ran one set of PR2s and two sets of PR4s. Stable with all of those.
I should edit my original post to say those roads were closed and I am a professional rider when I exceeded the posted speed limit!

With the stock 45/55% front/rear weight balance there is no way an ST will ever have too much weight on the front wheel. Add wimpy springs, tools, top boxes, all the stuff we carry, and top off with a husky corn fed rider and it's a wonder it's not more of a wheelie machine than it is.

If you need to crank the shock preload before getting it to respond, then I would add some fluid to the circuit. I bought mine w/ 1185 miles & rode it 18k miles before I checked the preload. Sure enough, the circuit needed oil. Adjusting the preload to the recommended setting made a positive difference for me.

I loved the way the bike handled before the adjustment...I love it even better now. I might add I do not go triple digits.

I weigh 160, ride w/ full gear & use 42 psi F & R.

Your comments about the VFR are interesting. I put 35k miles on a new 95 VFR. I never had confidence in the suspension. I was so frustrated, I put in RaceTech springs & Gold Valves. Improved my confidence marginally.

I think a lot of our handling preferences are formed by what's comfortable to each one of us.

I hope you enjoy your new ride!!