ST1100 non-ABS: difference between front and rear brake pads?

paulcb

- - - Tetelestai - - - R.I.P. - 2022/05/26
Rest In Peace
Joined
Jun 4, 2013
Messages
4,652
Location
Celina, TX
Bike
'97/'01 ST1100 ABSII
STOC #
8735
While changing the tires on my ST1100 non-ABS, I decided to replace the rear brake pads. I pulled the old rear pads and compared them to a set of new front pads (EBC FA142HH). The rear pads I pulled are an exact match to the set of new EBC front pads. I'm sure the old rear pads are EBC FA196HH because I replaced them about 25k miles ago. Is it possible the you can use front pads on the rear of a non-ABS St1100? :confused: Anyone know the difference between the front and rear pads?

Edit: Several "forums" said the only difference was the pad thickness, the rear pad being thicker. Couldn't find anything in the EBC catalog. FWIW, I measured 4.5mm on the new 142HH (front) pads. Are the rear pads thicker?
 
Last edited:
Joined
Aug 10, 2015
Messages
2,029
Location
Fort Worth, Texas
Bike
91 ST1100/06 ST1300
Partzilla shows different pad part numbers front to rear. Mine were rebuilt just before I bought the bike, so I can't comment first hand on them.
 

Slydynbye

Will ride for Pie
Joined
Sep 3, 2007
Messages
1,596
Location
Fremont, California
Bike
2000 ABSII
STOC #
7331
I bought some Pads from a generic moto shop, they gave me EBC and they are spec'd for the same pad front and back.
The OEM pads are about twice as thick on the rear pad as the EBC.
 

John OoSTerhuis

Life Is Good!
Joined
May 10, 2005
Messages
5,218
Location
Bettendorf, Iowa
Bike
1991 SSMST1100
STOC #
1058
Is it possible the you can use front pads on the rear of a non-ABS St1100? Anyone know the difference between the front and rear pads?
You can use a Honda front pad on the rear if you cut a notch in the positioning tab opposite the end with the hole for the caliper pin. The Honda rear pads have this notch and as mentioned are twice as thick as fronts. And of course a rear can be used on the front if worn down enough to allow it to be fitted.

John
via iPhone 6
 
Last edited:
Joined
Oct 9, 2012
Messages
81
Location
Singapore
Bike
ST1100Y
While changing the tires on my ST1100 non-ABS, I decided to replace the rear brake pads. I pulled the old rear pads and compared them to a set of new front pads (EBC FA142HH). The rear pads I pulled are an exact match to the set of new EBC front pads. I'm sure the old rear pads are EBC FA196HH because I replaced them about 25k miles ago. Is it possible the you can use front pads on the rear of a non-ABS St1100? :confused: Anyone know the difference between the front and rear pads?

Edit: Several "forums" said the only difference was the pad thickness, the rear pad being thicker. Couldn't find anything in the EBC catalog. FWIW, I measured 4.5mm on the new 142HH (front) pads. Are the rear pads thicker?
I just did a rough measurement on my new in package FA196HH, the pad thickness is ~6mm, the metal backing ~3mm, total is ~9mm thick.
Didn't took down the measurement of my front EBC before I replaced them, but if memory is correct, front(FA142HH) does indeed look thinner compared to the back pads(FA196HH), but back thickness doesn't look twice of front though.

Ray.
 
OP
OP
paulcb

paulcb

- - - Tetelestai - - - R.I.P. - 2022/05/26
Rest In Peace
Joined
Jun 4, 2013
Messages
4,652
Location
Celina, TX
Bike
'97/'01 ST1100 ABSII
STOC #
8735
Thanks for the comments all. I'm going to try and source some Honda rear pads locally. I'm leaving Wed for BRG so if I can't find any locally, I'll just throw in those EBC front pads until the next change.

Thanks again.
 

John OoSTerhuis

Life Is Good!
Joined
May 10, 2005
Messages
5,218
Location
Bettendorf, Iowa
Bike
1991 SSMST1100
STOC #
1058
I'm going to try and source some Honda rear pads locally. I'm leaving Wed for BRG so if I can't find any locally, I'll just throw in those EBC front pads until the next change.
Just curious, Paul. I've never used anything but OEM pads so haven't looked closely at any of the aftermarkets. Do the EBC fronts have the notch to fit the rear caliper? Believe me, without the notch you can't seat a front pad in the rear. AMHIKT

John
 

ST1100Y

Site Supporter
Joined
Dec 4, 2012
Messages
4,981
Age
59
Location
Vienna, AuSTria
Bike
ST1100Y, ST1100R
STOC #
637
IMHO & IIRC the notch<>tab setup provides "coding" to prevent confusing/unintentionally interchange front and rear pads...

I think the rear pads (and rotor) are twice as thick to cope with the heat build-up back there...
I also believe that the rear pads are softer then the front ones, who provide 60~80% of the brake-load...
 
OP
OP
paulcb

paulcb

- - - Tetelestai - - - R.I.P. - 2022/05/26
Rest In Peace
Joined
Jun 4, 2013
Messages
4,652
Location
Celina, TX
Bike
'97/'01 ST1100 ABSII
STOC #
8735
Thanks for the comments John and Martin. The front EBC pads have the notch... I assume they use the same base plate for their front and rear pads. I went ahead and put those in because I couldn't source the Honda rears locally in the time frame I needed. Everything went back together as expected. Will test them out tomorrow.
 
Joined
Dec 23, 2015
Messages
1
Location
Alberta, Canada
BUMP! Interesting stuff, about the thicker rear pads.

It would seem this is a recurring theme on a lot of Honda models, as the DOHC-4 CB750's, CB900F etc, had a similar match front to rear, and certain models which also used alternate pads up front too, if they had different rotors that is. Other than the 276mm vs 296mm diameters with alternate caliper hangers with identical calipers - OR the single-puck vs twin-puck calipers themselves, the PRINCIPAL differences so far as brake PADS are concerned were in thicknesses of the brake discs themselves, 9-rotor composite discs of approximately 6mm thickness vs alternate versions with the double-thick vented sandwich rotors in the 10.9-11mm thickness (yeah - WOW - but remember there's a hollow gap in the middle!) OR the dished one-piece dished rotors in the 4.5-5.0mm thickness. It's a convoluted mess if you're going off of the year and sub-designation and the market etc etc, but if you match the thicker pads with the thinner rotors then it all makes sense. There were also differences in the PISTONS for that matter, where the rear had a different piston height or length of piston than the front, but same diameter either way. I'd suppose the CLEVER way to do it is to grab the THICKER pads 'cause they're gonna have better lifespan AND insulation between the hot disc and hydraulic fluid.

BUT - ya'll have just mentioned different pad HARDNESS! Now I'm wondering whether there wasn't anything similar going on with those old DOHC-4 Honda pads, where what might SEEM like a clever mod might have weakened the brake's power by a substantial factor.....

I'd think if we really want something better than the stock set-up, the "mod" should be to use an aftermarket pad with more jam, like the "FERODO GREEN" etc. Not sure whether they offered a pad for the ST calipers?

Well it's MY goal however, to whip up a custom front end for '80s Honda race-replica projects, using two RHS legs from the '96+ ST1100-ABS for the 43mm TRAC anti-dive factor, as thick of a TRAC fork you'll ever find outside of the NS500/NSR500/RS500 range. And when it comes to making custom caliper hangers, better to make two mirror image flat planks of alloy for opposed-piston style calipers - RATHER than a single mirror image hanger for the OEM calipers which are of a sliding type & require the pin & slide-pin grease, rubber boots etc etc. THAT'S gonna be one complicated hanger to make!

So I'm of a mind that it may be better to dig up some simple aftermarket calipers, the Lockheed/Grimeca clone AP-RACING type, or better yet similar stuff from SPONDON - as certain riders went with these retro-fried calipers on their NS500's, NSR500's & RS500's etc - Therefore it would be "PERIOD-CORRECT" to do so!

(((Gotta wonder whether they braked as WELL as those fitted with more modern four-pot & 6-pot Nissin/Tokico calipers?)))

IF the inside face of the caliper won't bash into a COMSTAR wheel (much the same dimensions as a wire-spoke wheel, where this problem is well understood and solutions laid out) this should work out fine on any mid-'80s race-replica.

Goes without saying, any track-day style IMPROVED ST' would utilize such a fork?

I picture it something like a late '90s GUZZI Endurance-Racer, but a FOUR-banger instead of a twin - otherwise, very similar design ethos/pathos. With all of the anti-lock brake stuff eliminated, the bike should look a lot cleaner with the bodywork stripped down and modified, right? Meanwhile there are the thicker walled exhaust headers from the CTX1300 etc - Perhaps there's even some sort of AFTERMARKET pipes available for that beast? It could really get behind an idea like that! But any which way you slice it, the IDEAL would be a double-sided TRAC fork in 43mm. Bah! Maybe with all the extra weight & power, it'd be better best to bump up to 45mm+ in a non-USD non-TRAC type fork? 316mm rotors would be good, but - Would you want to keep the stock wheels on it? I'm picturing something radical '90s Grand-Prix for this four-banger Guzzi Daytona style ST - MARVIC composite wheels, with the Akront "NERVI" rims on the perimeter? Yeah, that'd be the $#!% - There's some very cool shaft-drive rear wheel swap stuff to be seen on a certain CB900C 'C-ustom based WIRE-SPOKE chopper done by one "6pkrunner" on the www.cb750c.com 'C-ommunity or Four-um, wherein the donor hub was spooled down on a lathe & plugged into a drum that'd been hollowed out from side-to-side, welded into place with a few alignment pins along the centerline - the point being the spokes themselves will correct the wheel, make it balanced & concentric etc - the pins would only be to ensure the "chain-line" off-set were correct to an OEM type spoke set. While it was originally done with a COMSTAR rear wheel, I should think it's obvious it'd work on just about anything! Well I wonder whether the OEM wheels could be machined to create a replacement hub for a COMSTAR wheel, or for that matter a MARVIC style composite bi-metal rim, with the Akront "NERVI" type or even the non-dimpled Akront wire-spoke type "TR" profile rims with simple bolts through to the cut-down wheel spokes - as was the case with later MARVIC wheels on certain Ducati special editions throughout the '90s - If this stuff was all so appropriate to use on ITALIAN race-bikes of the late 1990s, surely the Honda V4 ST's own Endurance Racer could use similar gear?

And if the thought of an ST-based RACE-bike seems too far fetched? The very first proper TOURING four-banger liquid-cooled shaft-drive Honda ever made, which is to say the '75 GL1000, was ITSELF the basis for a competition version at the '76 BOL D'OR and ISLE OF MAN TOURIST-TROPHY etc etc - The GL1000 based DONCQUE DLF-1000, not to mention the Rickman/Dresda "WING THING"!

Comparing the 'WING to the ST, I should think the Beemer vs Guzzi analogy fits, where a "Guzzisti" once remarked that "The BMW has saggy jugs, whereas the Guzzi she has the PERKY jugs!" Ha-ha. Ergo, the ST should be just that much better for the cornering clearance - indeed the DLF-1000 and the Butler R90S from inaugural year AMA Superbike glory, BOTH had chassis mods which sought to raise those jugs up front while tilting down the swing-arm etc - Meanwhile similar mods were unnecessary for the GUZZI and as such so too with the ST1100's Endurance Racer.

Just a brain-fart. THUS FAR.....




-Sigh.
 
Top Bottom