ST vs RT on BMW forum

Afan

... and this is my real name.
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I was looking for some data about STs and found this:
http://www.bmwlt.com/forums/rt-series/33736-bmw-r1200rt-vs-honda-st1300.html
Of course, to ask to compare ST and RT on BMW forum is kinda... you know... ;)
But, it's the true that there are few "legit" ST downsides. I have ST1100, and they on the forum were talking about ST1300, but the issues are kinda the same: very hot seat on hot days, and no standard accessories like heated grips, seat, cruise control... The issues I'm experiencing too. The issues the competitors solved a long time ago on their sport-touring models.

So, wonder what STowners can say about it? Is it the "customer commitment" to Honda what is keeping us from choosing something else, or there is something I, as a newbie, still don't get it?

I know we already had similar threads where the members were talking about switching (or already did it) from ST to FJRs, Concourses, BMWs due to lack of the improvement of technology on newer STs. And I understand them. Now, I wonder more what's keeping the rest of going to the "dark side" (in this case I don't think on car tires :) )...
 
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I think one of the factors in the past when comparing the ST to some BMW models has been the issue of long-term reliability. I'm sure BMW has resolved this issue by now, but it hasn't been all that long ago that they were notorious for final drive failures. A friend of mine had that happen to him on an extended trip a few years ago and left him stranded at the side of the road somewhere in the middle of New Mexico, waiting for a tow truck to come to his rescue. Another issue I recall hearing or reading about with the early 4-cylinder K bikes was more of an annoyance than anything, I don't know that it ever caused any mechanical failures; if the bike was parked overnight using the side stand rather than the center stand, a small amount of oil could seep past the valve guides and pool in the combustion chambers, resulting in blue smoke from the exhaust upon starting, until the oil burned away. I guess it's not that unusual for many bikes (or cars, trucks, and most other mass-produced consumer products) to have known issues with specific models. The problem this presents to many of us is that we often aren't aware of those issues until after the fact.
 

Bones

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Having ridden an ST1300 for 12 years and now an R1200RT for a year, you can count me as someone who stuck with Honda for years and finally moved to another manufacturer that makes a new bike with the features and performance I was looking for. Not dissing the ST, which I enjoyed riding, just answering your question. It was that "customer commitment" you mentioned that kept me around so long, but Honda's not making a bike that speaks to me right now. If they introduce one, I'll sure consider it.

If I was looking for a big sport tourer, I'd buy an RT, which I've done. It's much lighter than the ST with similar power and it has just about every touring-oriented features than you can think of. It needs an angle adjustment for the GPS screen (to cut glare) and BMW still can't figure out the audio interference from the GPS audio feed (goes way when you unplug the feed, which I don't use anyway). Other than that, it's just really good. The service from MaxBMW is in another league compared to Honda and Kawasaki service, which are the other two dealer types I have dealt with.

If I was looking for a middleweight all-arounder, I'd buy a 650 Versys. I did buy one in 2008, have put 30,000 miles on it and still love to ride it. The latest version has a fair amount of refinement over mine, but the basic goodness of the underlying platform is there so I'm sticking with mine. It's no dirt bike, but for dirt roads (which are plentiful in rural New England) it's good, and for 2-lane blacktop it's a hoot.
 
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Afan

Afan

... and this is my real name.
Joined
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521
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Urbandale, IA
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1998 ST1100
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8832
Having ridden an ST1300 for 12 years and now an R1200RT for a year, you can count me as someone who stuck with Honda for years and finally moved to another manufacturer that makes a new bike with the features and performance I was looking for. Not dissing the ST, which I enjoyed riding, just answering your question. It was that "customer commitment" you mentioned that kept me around so long, but Honda's not making a bike that speaks to me right now. If they introduce one, I'll sure consider it.

If I was looking for a big sport tourer, I'd buy an RT, which I've done. It's much lighter than the ST with similar power and it has just about every touring-oriented features than you can think of. It needs an angle adjustment for the GPS screen (to cut glare) and BMW still can't figure out the audio interference from the GPS audio feed (goes way when you unplug the feed, which I don't use anyway). Other than that, it's just really good. The service from MaxBMW is in another league compared to Honda and Kawasaki service, which are the other two dealer types I have dealt with.

If I was looking for a middleweight all-arounder, I'd buy a 650 Versys. I did buy one in 2008, have put 30,000 miles on it and still love to ride it. The latest version has a fair amount of refinement over mine, but the basic goodness of the underlying platform is there so I'm sticking with mine. It's no dirt bike, but for dirt roads (which are plentiful in rural New England) it's good, and for 2-lane blacktop it's a hoot.
Thanks Bones,
I read your great post/review/article "Thoughts on my 2014 BMW R1200RT" and that's the one too that made me "start thinking". :)
I still want Honda's reliability and trouble free motorcycle but just started to wonder for what costs... :(
 

okckeith

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but Honda's not making a bike that speaks to me right now. If they introduce one, I'll sure consider it.
And I think the new models that are coming will all be missing what I want on my bike. I bought a 2015 Triumph Tiger 800XCX because it had everything I wanted on a middle weight bike. I traded in my 2012 BMW G650GS after only six months. I put 2,200 of the 8,600 miles on it. I had to take it in twice for repairs under warranty. The previous owner had it in one time that I know of. I needed to extend the warranty or get rid of it. That was my first and last BMW. But that is just me. Many have had very good luck with them. I have just read way too bad things to ever gamble on buying one ever again.
My 07 ST1300 has been rock solid for 8 1/2 years and 80,000 miles. Yes it is heavy. Yes it is dated. But so am I. Maybe that is why I like it so much. :D
 

thumperjdm

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I know we already had similar threads where the members were talking about switching (or already did it) from ST to FJRs, Concourses, BMWs due to lack of the improvement of technology on newer STs. And I understand them. Now, I wonder more what's keeping the rest of going to the "dark side" (in this case I don't think on car tires :) )...
I don't know about "dark side," but some of us switched to the "Brit side." :D
 

Uncle Phil

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Hot seat on hot days on a ST1100? That's rather curious as I have experienced that on ST1300s (13,000+ miles on rentals) but not on ST1100s - unless you are talking in the 90Fs + then anything is hot. ;-) It is a shame that Honda didn't include those accessories on the ST1300 (but IIRC back when the ST1100 came out I don't think anybody had them). Heated grips are about $50 and a couple of hours, cruise control (if you go with the MCCruise - the Rostra or Audiovox is much less) is pretty expensive ($1,500+) and some time, Russell Daylong about $500 for just the rider, and suspension mods - as much as you want to spend (Works Pro Racer rear shock, Works Progressive springs in the front). You do it yourself or the manufacturer/dealer does it - but you still pay for it one way or the other. BTDT and I am perfectly happy with my ST1100s. I do love the adjustable windshield and have been playing around with the idea for one for the ST1100 (got a working manual adjustable in my garage now). The lighter weight is nice but I'm a big guy with long legs so that doesn't bother me at all. At the end of the day, there are very few 'pilots' that ever get close to the edge of the performance capabilities of the ST1100, ST1300 or the RTs so it really boils down to comfort. You have to decide what pushes your buttons. On my 2002 ST1100, the valves were still in spec at 100,000 miles - maintenance has been minimal on all three of my ST1100s. After riding the old Brit bikes for many years (BSA and Triumph), I rather like 'boring'. I have no desire to own a ST1300 or a RT (money is not the issue) at this point as my ST1100s do all that I want them to do and I have them outfitted to suit me. It becomes a point as you where you want to spend your money. Not having what you want is not worth much regardless of what you spend. It's sort of like the old Concours - it was without a doubt the best value in sport touring for a long time but it had it's 'issues'. One of two things will happen with Honda in this market segment - they either will abandon it or they must come out with a 'category killer' bike. Time will tell for sure and until they do, I'll be very happy on my ST1100s with heated grips, electronic cruise control, comfortable seat, highway wings, lovely stereo jukebox and great wind protection. :D
 
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If you want a performance comparison. There is no comparison. The ST far out performs anything in performance, reliability and maintenance costs. That is what keeps me with my ST. I recently covered 800 miles in one day and the handling and aerodynamics was excellent. Compare the price of the RT to ST and that is another reason to stick with the ST. The motor is silky smooth at highway speeds 70-80. RT has more noise and vibrations as the rpms climb to 4K. The only thing lacking in the ST is a factory cruise control. I live in Illinois and if someone can assist me in installing the Rostra electronic cc, I will keep this bike for ever.
 

SteveST1300

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but Honda's not making a bike that speaks to me right now. If they introduce one, I'll sure consider it.
Bones is a smaller guy than me by about 1/2 well maybe less but the weight of the ST was always an issue not a huge issue but it is a heavy bike being larger than Bones the weight doesn't bother me and I have had my ST since late 2003 and this year I aquired an 04 as well, my 03 has over 150k miles on it and it now has all the farkles I want on it granted it took me a while to get it just how I like it but its there its paid for and still runs good. I am taking it to FLSTOC in a few days. So for now I am content on my old Honda. Will I ever switch to another brand maybe I am not that brand loyal but the ST does everything I need a bike to do and its paid for.
 
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2006ST & 2012RT! ST hands down for long distance riding even with every accessory offered on the RT. Just one switch recall on the RT in a little over a year ownership. With that stated, I do love that factory cruise on the RT.
 
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I'm one who left the Honda fold for a K1600 GT. I'm on my second one now and have never regretted the change (hit a deer with the first one). But nice as the K bike is, I still like the ST 1300 more than any of the other offerings out there (except the K).. Even though some say it's dated, it just looks right to me. And I still think it's the best looking of all of them with the bags on it. In fact, I'm really tempted to try to buy another one after reading that thread about new ones selling for $10,500. I had a 2006 that I paid $12,200 for. So a 2012 for $10,500 is too good to pass up.
 

ST1100Y

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...no standard accessories like heated grips, seat, cruise control...
...IIRC back when the ST1100 came out I don't think anybody had them...
Right, back when the ST1100 was launched, competitors didn't even have a decent touring motorcycle in their catalogue...

The interesting thing:
now, compared to current competitors a quarter of a century later, that ol' ST1100 still is a very decent touring bike...

Throw also reliability and operating cost into the bucket, both, 11 & 1300 leave all others well behind...
And what are the key merits? Lotsa bling-bling or reliability?
 
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Back a year ago when I found my new ST, I had researched all bikes in the sport touring class for over 2 years . I thought I had missed the chance to ever buy a new ST. The BMW and the Honda ST ended at the top of the list. But with the problem that I verified the BMW had ruled it out. It sounded much like the problems we had with my wife's BMW 330ci. It ran great but it needed much time in the shop. The car did not hold up well for the price paid and lost value quickly. I want to ride so I chose the ST1300. All the negatives I heard about the ST came out to be nothing. The weight, but a heavy bike rides better. The heat, 95 percent is between the ears. And the pan weave, only if you ride like a fool. I did not want all the extra gadgets on a bike. To many distraction and also something else to break. I think the problem with the ST is Honda. They don't try to sale there own bikes. I go places and people want to know what it is.They never knew Honda even made the ST. When dealers are trying to sale three brands of bikes, they don't care what they sale just so they sale something . The Honda brand and quality is lost.
 

Andrew Shadow

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When I bought my first ST (I am on my third now) it came down to the ST1100 or at the time an RT. At the time the RT was $7, 000.00 more expensive than the ST and I couldn't really justify the difference in price for what I was getting so I went with the ST1100.

When I was researching to buy my latest ride it again came down to the ST and BMW. Again the BMW price was an issue for the very same reasons. I realized it was better equipped but if a person doesn't want or need that equipment then it is simply a price inflation for no added value to that person.

While researching I kept reading about how the ST1300 was dated and technologically behind the pack. Well, that only matters if you need or want that technology- I did not.

So, because it is dated, I bought my latest ST1300 brand new at a very discounted price- win # 1.
Also because it is dated it was much cheaper than a BMW- win # 2.
I get legendary Honda quality & reliability and, because it is dated (i.e. been around a long time and has history), I also get the well renowned ST specific longevity- win # 3.
I don't like all of the fancy electronic gizmos on a motorcycle anyway and because it is dated (i.e. doesn't have them) I didn't pay for them up front, nor will I have to pay to fix them in the future when they break- win # 4. (True- I had to add heated grips [$50.00] but that hardly broke the bank.)
Because it is dated all of the bugs have been identified and fixed so I have no recalls to deal with- win # 5.
Even though it is dated I still get better MPG and longer maintenance intervals than BMW- win # 6.

None of the above is to imply that that the BMW is not a quality machine or that the St is better. I understood that I wanted a good solid reliable bike that rides well and does what I need it to do. The ST1300 met those needs much more cheaply then did the BMW. Adding accessories and technological updates that I don't need/want does not contribute to that end for me. In my case dated was not a bad thing- it was actually preferable for me.

The real truth is to each his own- depends on what a person is looking for in a bike.

It turns out that I like dated!
 
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Back in 2004 I had a 91 1100ST. (also an 84 Gold Wing) Loved it except for the fact I had trouble keeping it in double digits. (younger & dumber then) It was just what I call sneaky fast.
Especially out in the open roads away from the cities. So I traded it in 2005 for an 88 Goldwing. That kept me sane for a lot of years speed wise. Fun bike, still own & ride it. Love having cruise & radio/CB for the group riding I do with the GWRRA folks. But after several years of taking rider courses and actually learning how to ride (still learning) my Gold Wing was lacking a certain FUN factor if you know what I mean.

That had me doing the looking and researching for a Sport Touring bike again.

Like most ST'ers I found that all the bells and whistles (if your into all that stuff) could be added a lot cheaper if done yourself.
So I bit the bullet and bought my new 2010 ST1300 in April of 2011.
For me it was this mind set that guided me.
#1, With the Gen 3 risers the bike fits me well. #2, with the 7.6 gal tank it goes farther than most, #3, fuel injection (never had issues in the higher elevations out west) #4, still have the reliability of a Honda (I,m getting older & slower and would rather ride than push) #5, shorter wheel base than my ST1100 and handles well (fast or slow) #6, It's still sneaky FAST! (more disciplined now), #7, after owning 2 Gold Wings weight is never an issue.

So if its DATED? I guess like some of the others here, So am I. So be it. After all most of us would rather have the extra funds to fill the tank and see the world, meet knew Folks!!!
 
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When I bought my first ST (I am on my third now) it came down to the ST1100 or at the time an RT. At the time the RT was $7, 000.00 more expensive than the ST and I couldn't really justify the difference in price for what I was getting so I went with the ST1100.

When I was researching to buy my latest ride it again came down to the ST and BMW. Again the BMW price was an issue for the very same reasons. I realized it was better equipped but if a person doesn't want or need that equipment then it is simply a price inflation for no added value to that person.

While researching I kept reading about how the ST1300 was dated and technologically behind the pack. Well, that only matters if you need or want that technology- I did not.

So, because it is dated, I bought my latest ST1300 brand new at a very discounted price- win # 1.
Also because it is dated it was much cheaper than a BMW- win # 2.
I get legendary Honda quality & reliability and, because it is dated (i.e. been around a long time and has history), I also get the well renowned ST specific longevity- win # 3.
I don't like all of the fancy electronic gizmos on a motorcycle anyway and because it is dated (i.e. doesn't have them) I didn't pay for them up front, nor will I have to pay to fix them in the future when they break- win # 4. (True- I had to add heated grips [$50.00] but that hardly broke the bank.)
Because it is dated all of the bugs have been identified and fixed so I have no recalls to deal with- win # 5.
Even though it is dated I still get better MPG and longer maintenance intervals than BMW- win # 6.

None of the above is to imply that that the BMW is not a quality machine or that the St is better. I understood that I wanted a good solid reliable bike that rides well and does what I need it to do. The ST1300 met those needs much more cheaply then did the BMW. Adding accessories and technological updates that I don't need/want does not contribute to that end for me. In my case dated was not a bad thing- it was actually preferable for me.

The real truth is to each his own- depends on what a person is looking for in a bike.

It turns out that I like dated!
+1, +1
 
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