Another Oil Thread

OK, Today was my day to do a Google search on " Hypoid Gear Oil Lubrication " , but when doing that I caught a link to a test on diesel oils. http://bestmotoroil.weebly.com/diesel-oil-testing.html#.VkUIrnarQZ8

To my amazement , the "Load Carry Capacity / Film Strength " all of these diesel oils were LESS than a lot of non-diesel oils. I always thought diesel oils were more heavy-duty than non-diesels oils. The explanation was that diesels engines are low speed engines and are designed for lower loads than non-diesel engines.

I think from what I have read before today, that diesels oils are designed to better prevent ring deposits, tho.

So now I have to re-think what I will be running in the old ST. I'm most concerned about the ST being a high RPM motor compared to a diesel. I think I will be using either a 10W-40 or 15W-40 , but not sure if it will be straight mineral oil or a full synthetic and if it will need to meet the JASO MB2 standard. Found some interesting test info on MB2 and other oils, too.

If I can find Alex Schmidt's email, I'll try to find what oil he runs. Last word I heard was he has over 400K miles w/o ever disassembling the engine.

Just 20-25 years ago, there was some similar discussion on gasoline...you could never be sure what was in the station's tank. Could be from any refiner (Shell, Texaco, Exxon, etc.) as the distributors colluded to save shipping costs or avoid shortages, plus it could be an octane rating other than what was on the pump....no difference, no difference, no difference. The practice stopped (allegedly) when someone filed a false advertising suit against a distributor. Guess someone really wanted their Techron.

Have motor oils turned this corner as well? Differences are technically insignificant and all marketing hype?

Don't lose any sleep over it Jim. Where you live, not the baked south, or not likely riding in sub zero winter, a decent 10W-40 synthetic motorcycle oil is all you need.

Oldbikefixr said:

Just 20-25 years ago, there was some similar discussion on gasoline...you could never be sure what was in the station's tank. Could be from any refiner (Shell, Texaco, Exxon, etc.) as the distributors colluded to save shipping costs or avoid shortages, plus it could be an octane rating other than what was on the pump....no difference, no difference, no difference. The practice stopped (allegedly) when someone filed a false advertising suit against a distributor. Guess someone really wanted their Techron.

Have motor oils turned this corner as well? Differences are technically insignificant and all marketing hype?

Click to expand...

I know a guy who not too long ago delivered gasoline driving a tanker truck. He claims all the various gasoline brands filled from the same tanks at the depot, but then different additive packages were added depending on the brand.

Jim Van said:

I know a guy who not too long ago delivered gasoline driving a tanker truck. He claims all the various gasoline brands filled from the same tanks at the depot, but then different additive packages were added depending on the brand.

Click to expand...

It is my understanding that oils are very similar to what Jim said. The basic oil stocks are the same, and its the additive package that really defines the oil. Under some limited conditions, you could lube with water - its the thin film of liquid between adjacent moving metal parts that separates the moving metal and provides the lubrication. However, once you rev up the engine, increase the load or the temperature, the water will not carry the load (hence film strength numbers, and extreme pressure lubes). And the additives prevent corrosion, neutralize acids from dissolved combustion products, give additional lubricating properties (graphite and moly), etc. etc. In the end, you will pick what you feel comfortable with, what meets your budget, is available, and you will probably have no trouble at all for many many miles.

Jim Van said:

I know a guy who not too long ago delivered gasoline driving a tanker truck. He claims all the various gasoline brands filled from the same tanks at the depot, but then different additive packages were added depending on the brand.

Click to expand...

That's right and some companies add fewer, or lesser quantities of additives, to save money, thus being able to sell more cheaply at the discount gas bars. Look up Top Tier fuels for info on what that standard is and which companies adhere to the policy. Some gas stations display the Top Tier sign to indicate their better quality fuels.

Bush said:

Don't lose any sleep over it Jim. Where you live, not the baked south, or not likely riding in sub zero winter, a decent 10W-40 synthetic motorcycle oil is all you need.

Click to expand...

Motorcraft 5W-50 full synthetic test results really looked good, but I can't afford $20 a quart. I'm going to spend some time making a decision, but I'm staying away from diesel oil, even the full synthetics. But of course ( for me ) price is an issue. There has to be a deal out there ......

Jim Van said:

I know a guy who not too long ago delivered gasoline driving a tanker truck. He claims all the various gasoline brands filled from the same tanks at the depot, but then different additive packages were added depending on the brand.

Click to expand...

That's the case for most brands. Exxon and Shell do a lot of their own distribution, but pretty much everyone else is buying spot market gas distributed through the same terminals. (Bro-in-law works in that business.)

Jim Van said:

I'm going to spend some time making a decision, but I'm staying away from diesel oil, even the full synthetics. But of course ( for me ) price is an issue. There has to be a deal out there ......

Click to expand...

There's a great deal out there. The deal is that you can find any major-brand oil (you probably want to avoid these) that meets your budget, the API service category and SAE viscosity grades required for your ST, pour it in and go ride. That includes the diesel oils that meet the requirements. Most in that article don't, and you'd be nuts to use a C-only oil in a gas engine or the wrong viscosity range in any engine.

A few things about that article worth nitpicking: First, the author is fixated on film strength and never bothers to mention what the API S service categories actually require. People who design engines tend to be card-carrying members of the SAE, know what those requirements are, build accordingly and probably leave enough margin to survive oil that isn't quite up to snuff. Second, the thermal breakdown numbers are high enough that if your oil is being brought up to those kinds of temperatures and kept there, you have much bigger things to worry about than whether or not the lubricants are still good. Third, there are oils on the market that meet both the S and C service categories, something the author doesn't mention despite the fact that he took the time to type in the specs off the bottles.

Can I get some oil for my popcorn?

--Mark

I read about the issues with these oils when doing my Google search. They were being sold mainly at gas stations and convenience stores, if I recall. Read so many articles the last few days it's hard to keep everything straight.