Clutch not disengaging

07 ST1300A 91,000 Miles, On the way to work this morning the clutch lever began to not disengage until almost all the way "in". It got progressively worse as I continued the ride. I tried pumping the handle and this did seem to help. I have not checked the fluid level (it was still dark when I got in) but since it was "fine" at the start of the ride and then sort of just happened, I figured it's not the fluid level.

Any thoughts? I intend to try and nurse it home, about 25 miles. But if there is something I could try between now and 4 PM today..

Sounds like you may have some air in the system and you need to replace fluid and bleed is where I would start.

970mike said:

Sounds like you may have some air in the system and you need to replace fluid and bleed is where I would start.

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Probably not an option here at work. Got a chance to check the sight glass and don't see a fluid level so that appears to be the problem. Now to deiced on options. No fluid under the bike so.... not sure it it was just low to begin with and I missed it (the sight glass is hidden behind the JM CB Radio mount) or it began to leak on the way to work

Therefore it appears to be air

jfheilman said:

Probably not an option here at work. I will check the fluid level in a few minutes and update this reply.

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That would be helpful. The mechanism itself inside the engine is bullet proof but slave cylinder leaks aren't unheard of. If the fluid level was "fine" and suddenly it isn't there's a leak somewhere.

Hopefully you can get home by adding fluid. It does sound like you have a leak or possibly a faulty component (master or slave cylinder).

I've had times when I thought I saw fluid in the glass, but on closer inspection found I had been running on empty for quite some time....had the exact same problem.

The pain was bleeding the trapped air out.

ToddC

+1 on checking the fluid level. The bleeder is less of a hassle then the brake system.
If you have fluid pull the handle and check the condition of the brass pivot pc. The plunger rod can wear a hole thru it and chew into the handle over time leaving progressively more slop and less piston travel in the master cylinder.

If it feels soft suspect air in the system. If it feels firm but has to travel too far before you feel pressure suspect the pivot busing in the handle.

Pulling the faring at work and doing a proper bleed is probably not practical but as an emergency procedure you could add some fluid to the master cylinder reservoir and then lash the lever back against the bar. This will at least partially bleed it enough to get home perhaps. Nothing more than a phillips head screwdriver and a bottle of brake fluid needed. Hopefully there's a auto parts or Wal Mart near by your work.

wjbertrand said:

Pulling the faring at work and doing a proper bleed is probably not practical but as an emergency procedure you could add some fluid to the master cylinder reservoir and then lash the lever back against the bar. This will at least partially bleed it enough to get home perhaps. Nothing more than a phillips head screwdriver and a bottle of brake fluid needed. Hopefully there's a auto parts or Wal Mart near by your work.

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This is something I haven't heard of before. Excuse my ignorance, but what is accomplished by lashing the lever back against the bar?

Edit: where did your Avatar go?

Don B said:

This is something I haven't heard of before. Excuse my ignorance, but what is accomplished by lashing the lever back against the bar?

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Lashing the lever back puts pressure on the system and forces the air up to the top. If you filled up the reservoir this works great to bleed the system. Pump it to build up the pressure and lash it down for an hour or two and you don't need to get at the slave to bleed it down there. If there is a lot of air, you may have to repeat the procedure a few times.

Later,
Kent Larson in Minnesota

Thanks for all the information. It was lack of fluid. I don't know where it went but. It was darn near empty

I took it home at lunch and got another ride. There are four stop signs and two lights on the way home. I timed the first light so it was green, the second light is always red but hardly ever any traffic.

The stop signs I rolled through. I had some clutch action after I got rolling. If I had thought about it more I would have moved the handle bars to get more fluid in the line.

At first, when I tired to start it, the clutch would not release. For the record it will start in first gear. After a few feet, I got some clutch action enough to shift gears using RPM as a help.

I don't think I hurt anything. I had to pull the cover when I got home and there was just the slightest amount of fluid in the bottom of the reservoir. So I filled it and put the cover back on and will do a bleed and feed over the weekend. I have been remiss in doing this. I have the tools but there is always a reason not to complete the task. The results are, as noted here.

The ST will crank over in any gear if the battery is up to it, as long as the clutch lever is pulled in. The starter doesn't know if the clutch is disengaged or not, only whether or not the clutch lever is pulled in. If mother Honda (or NHTSA or whoever makes the rules) really wanted to make the clutch safety switch foolproof, it would be at the slave cylinder instead of the clutch lever. Please, don't anyone tell them that I said that. I recall one time when the clutch cable broke on my GS850G on the way home from work and I had to shut off the engine when I came to a red light. Restarting the Suzy when the light turned green was, uh, interesting. Hitting the starter button while duck paddling forward worked, thank goodness.

"Hitting the starter button while duck paddling forward worked, thank goodness." Yep, thats what I did. Don't know if I would try it in "any" gear. And I don't remember what great it was in, certainly not above 2nd.

Again I want to thank you all for your input. It is really appreciated.

Jim

Don B said:

The ST will crank over in any gear if the battery is up to it, as long as the clutch lever is pulled in. The starter doesn't know if the clutch is disengaged or not, only whether or not the clutch lever is pulled in. If mother Honda (or NHTSA or whoever makes the rules) really wanted to make the clutch safety switch foolproof, it would be at the slave cylinder instead of the clutch lever. Please, don't anyone tell them that I said that. I recall one time when the clutch cable broke on my GS850G on the way home from work and I had to shut off the engine when I came to a red light. Restarting the Suzy when the light turned green was, uh, interesting. Hitting the starter button while duck paddling forward worked, thank goodness.

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It's not so much that the clutch lever switch is fooled or not, its whether or not the starter motor can crank the motor over in any gear but first gear slow enough to light off the engine and still pull away without stalling. That's asking a lot in any gear but first.

dduelin said:

It's not so much that the clutch lever switch is fooled or not, its whether or not the starter motor can crank the motor over in any gear but first gear slow enough to light off the engine and still pull away without stalling. That's asking a lot in any gear but first.

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Very, very true. I stand corrected. I'm guessing that it would start in any gear if the bike is on the center stand, but I don't think I would want to be the one to roll it OFF the CS if it had started in 5th gear amd revved up to ~5k or so,,,

So the bike is up on the center stand in the garage, the reservoir has been refilled, and I operated the clutch lever a few times and if felt engaged. (I know, I missed the tip on tying the clutch lever back).

I will do a complete bleed and feed this weekend. But Since I have not seen any fluid on the floor of the garage, where does the fluid go? I mean it does not evaporate the unit is well sealed.

jfheilman said:

So the bike is up on the center stand in the garage, the reservoir has been refilled, and I operated the clutch lever a few times and if felt engaged. (I know, I missed the tip on tying the clutch lever back).

I will do a complete bleed and feed this weekend. But Since I have not seen any fluid on the floor of the garage, where does the fluid go? I mean it does not evaporate the unit is well sealed.

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Not sure if it was filled up to the full line when it was last serviced and it can not leak internally. Flush system with new fluid and make sure it is full, then keep an eye on the level.

Where the fluid went is indeed still a concern to me, unlike brake fluid, which drops as the pads wear, clutch fluid level shouldn't change and if it was changing due to clutch wear it would rise not fall. The only place I can think where it could leak undetected is through the seal and into the engine. Alternatively, the bleeder valve is damaged or not securely closed?

Update: A little late but here it is.

I did a bleed and feed on the clutch, installed the speed bleeders and ran a lot of fluid through the system. I have put about 120 miles on the bike since then and there has been no change in the fluid level. Here is what I think happened.

I had the bike repaired by a Honda dealer in Clinton. I picked them because the local Honda dealer in Columbia wanted me to leave the bike for 2 weeks to get an estimate on repairs from a deer I hit over a year ago. (thats another story).

They took a long time to repair the bike and I suspect that they let the fluid drain out when they had the bike apart for repairs, (handle bars tiled and fluid drained out).

I have not noticed a change in the level in the reservoir since I have done the bleed/cleaning. I will put another 200 miles on it this coming week and continue to monitor the level. There is no indication of leakage under bike.

If the clutch plates wear, is there a auto adjuster that keeps the slave from extending it's pushrod further?? My clutch fluid did the same as the OP when I finally checked it. The rubber cap had been sucked down with the retracting oil level. Since only owning the bike for 10 months I do not know when it was last serviced. By the Carmel color I am guessing quite a while. I still am curious about the clutch wear versus oil level drop. Makes sense to me that level would drop as plates wear....??

If I'm wrong, teach me. Thanks, ToddC